Different Types of Islam

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kinana on November 27, 2011 at 23:43

Jonothon

I think this is wishful thinking.  I do not of know at all two of the versions of Islam you mention and only vaguely heard of the third one, which means they are not very prominent.

So in 1400 years they obviously have not made much headway against the Sunni, Shiite and Sufi variants of Islam.  How much longer should we wait for a ‘version [that] would be conducive to Greco Roman and Christian Civilisation’?!!

Also I do not see how the forces in the non-Islamic world can have any influence of the type of Islam that Muslims claim to adhere to.  Political and military manoeuvring can help determine how people will behave but not what they think.  The Qur'an and hadith are unchangeable and cannot be allegorised.

Permalink Reply by Jonothon Boulter on November 28, 2011 at 12:28

The Alawi who are the sect in power in Syria at the moment and the Druze are Pro Zionist in Israel where there make up a battalion of the Israel army. Both Allegorise the Quran. In the Middle ages these were the main form of Islam in Egypt and Syria.

 

I agree that our aim should be 2 fold that of neutralising Islam in Europe and then Asia for eg i have a freind in Peshawar who heads a Pathan independence group opposed to Pakistan which is an Islamic state and says that the Pathans are growing in an interest for a Secular State.

 

I see the alliance of the BFP and EDL as an excellent move as this can carry more influence with the Charles Martell network and with other Freedom parties across Europe.But i think we do need a big input from the Republican right in funding this agenda. Also it is shameful how the Vatican with its great wealth and influence are doing nothing as i can see in the Reconquista.

 

Permalink Reply by Kinana on November 28, 2011 at 16:54

J

you link Alawi islam in Syria with 'versions [of Islam that] would be conducive to Greco Roman and Christian Civilisation.'  are you serious?  Syria?  I believe Syria exports terror to Hamas for their next war with Israel.  What theological position is that coming from that can be compatible with 'Greco Roman and Christian Civilisation'?

 

they are also supporters of hezbollah.

http://news.yahoo.com/mass-rally-lebanon-denounce-syria-hezbollah-1...

 

are you still optimistic of Alawi version of Islam being better than the 3 main versions of Islam?  if so please explain.  thanks

Permalink Reply by Jonothon Boulter on November 28, 2011 at 18:08

The Alawi have attached themselves to the Baath party but are a sect that drinks alcohol rejects Halal and saw themselves as allies with France and opposed to Arab Nationalism.

Once the Baath party loses then the Alawi part will move towards a new direction. Syria itself a Sunni supports Hezbollah but not the Alawi. Also see the Druze in Israel. They are supporters of the state. See Muslim Zionists on wikipedia.

There are alot of them.

 

I see the Greco Roman and Christian Civilisation of the West being global so we need good allies in all corners.

Permalink Reply by Kinana on November 28, 2011 at 23:53

J

i am really confused now!  your original post said: 'being the Alawi who are the present power in Syria'

and yet you say later that Syria supports Hezbollah but that Alawi when they come to power will move into a new direction.  either alawi people are in power or they are not.  Since the state of Syria supports Hezbollah and Alawi does not support Hezbollah but they are in power in Syria how is Hezbollah being supported by Syria which they are?  it seems you are saying contradictory things about the Alawi position.

Since this is a theology room can you give me a few imams and their take on Quranic quotes which contadict the mainstrean view of sunni, shiite and sufi Islam.  E.g. it is okay to eat pork, or it is not permissible for a Muslim man to marry more than one woman at a time, etc....

thanks

Permalink Reply by Jonothon Boulter on November 29, 2011 at 9:06

Yes, the Alawi will adapt politically to any situation but preserve their Gnostic form of Islam as do the Druze who are Pro Israel.

The best thing to do is have a look at the history and ideas of the Alawi on wikipedia. They dont have Imams.

They are also called Nusayri which means Christian by their enemies.

 

Permalink Reply by Joe on November 29, 2011 at 10:05

I don't see that any of this is relevant, to be honest.  "Moderate" muslims such as Raheel Raza from Canada are living under threat of execution for other muslims.  Her crime?  She says that things like Mohammed being a slave-monger, torturer and murderer in the Sira are incorrect.

The Ahmadi muslims in Pakistan, Indonesia and even south London are living under threat of death for apostasy.

Whilst any particular "moderate" sect of islam might seem better/tolerable to us globally, we have to deal with the facts on the ground.  Muslims who leave islam in Britain receive next to no publicity for their plight.  Until a safe exit route is provided for muslims from their capture by the islamic mafia into which they are born, discussing slightly better versions of exotic and minority islam is akin to medieval discussions about the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin.

40% of British muslims say that any muslim who leaves islam should be killed.  Considering they would put the Ahmadis, Druze, etc. and the maybe even the "moderates" like Raheel Raza into the camp of apostates, these ideas seem to be of little practical use.  It is not for us to try to conver 1 billion muslims to become Druze.  It is for our society to stand up to the muslim mafia thugs and punish them severely (if necessary with removal from our society) when they threaten to kill someone (muslim or non muslim), or when they enforce marriage on their children, or circumcise their children.

We should be concentrating more on getting the grim and brutal truth about Mohammed taught in schools (that he bears more similarity to Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot than he does to Jesus or Buddha). We should be exposing the millenium of jihad.  We should be exposing that the trans-atlantic slave trade was a sub-set of the much larger and more more enduring islamic slave trade.  We should be stopping all immigration of muslims into Britain until the problem with islam is resolved.  We should be preventing the building of any more mosques.  We should be outlawing halal meat.

With all these things in place, we need not care about whether British muslims are Druze or Sunni.  If they stepped out of line and tried to emulate their idol Hitler Mohammed, then they would be severely punished.  Just as someone who tried to emulate Hitler or Pol Pot would be punished.

Internationally, we should be withdrawing all aid from muslim countries.  Instead we should be directing that aid to the victims of muslim countries, namely southern Sudan, Thailand, India.  We should be militarily aligned with Israel and not with Turkey.

Permalink Reply by Kinana on November 29, 2011 at 10:28

Jonothon,

 

The confusion continues!

So you confirm that the Alawi

are in control in Syria

support Hezbollah and Hamas and

by proxy support the war against Israel

am I reading your right?!

 

But then you say the Baath party are in control in Syria and imply that Alawi people are merely lying low (adapting) until it is their turn to come to power, at which time they will steer Syria on a course to join Western Civilisation.  How will this transition take place?  One thing Muslims are really good at is that once they seize the power of the State they do not give it up!

 

Re theology, if the Alawi are not considered Muslims by the vast majority of Muslims by what right should we/you say that they are followers of Islam?  And are offering a version of Islam that is compatible with Western Civilisation?

Permalink Reply by Jonothon Boulter on November 29, 2011 at 11:27

Yes i agree with this. But what are the practical steps we can do to win bck Europe for the West.? How does the Reconquista begin? We in Europe need big support from Right wing Republicans and create a Fifth Column.

Joe said:

I don't see that any of this is relevant, to be honest.  "Moderate" muslims such as Raheel Raza from Canada are living under threat of execution for other muslims.  Her crime?  She says that things like Mohammed being a slave-monger, torturer and murderer in the Sira are incorrect.

The Ahmadi muslims in Pakistan, Indonesia and even south London are living under threat of death for apostasy.

Whilst any particular "moderate" sect of islam might seem better/tolerable to us globally, we have to deal with the facts on the ground.  Muslims who leave islam in Britain receive next to no publicity for their plight.  Until a safe exit route is provided for muslims from their capture by the islamic mafia into which they are born, discussing slightly better versions of exotic and minority islam is akin to medieval discussions about the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin.

40% of British muslims say that any muslim who leaves islam should be killed.  Considering they would put the Ahmadis, Druze, etc. and the maybe even the "moderates" like Raheel Raza into the camp of apostates, these ideas seem to be of little practical use.  It is not for us to try to conver 1 billion muslims to become Druze.  It is for our society to stand up to the muslim mafia thugs and punish them severely (if necessary with removal from our society) when they threaten to kill someone (muslim or non muslim), or when they enforce marriage on their children, or circumcise their children.

We should be concentrating more on getting the grim and brutal truth about Mohammed taught in schools (that he bears more similarity to Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot than he does to Jesus or Buddha). We should be exposing the millenium of jihad.  We should be exposing that the trans-atlantic slave trade was a sub-set of the much larger and more more enduring islamic slave trade.  We should be stopping all immigration of muslims into Britain until the problem with islam is resolved.  We should be preventing the building of any more mosques.  We should be outlawing halal meat.

With all these things in place, we need not care about whether British muslims are Druze or Sunni.  If they stepped out of line and tried to emulate their idol Hitler Mohammed, then they would be severely punished.  Just as someone who tried to emulate Hitler or Pol Pot would be punished.

Internationally, we should be withdrawing all aid from muslim countries.  Instead we should be directing that aid to the victims of muslim countries, namely southern Sudan, Thailand, India.  We should be militarily aligned with Israel and not with Turkey.

Permalink Reply by Jonothon Boulter on November 29, 2011 at 11:31

Yes, this is what the Aalwi will do when their Baath state falls, they will move to look how to survive as they did under Islamic invasion and then under the Ottomans and again under the French when they had their own mini state but lost out to the Arab Nats to which they became Secular Nats. Its seems American Intell are interested in the Alawi when the Baath fall to the Muslim Brotherhood in the same way the Druze are allies.

Kinana said:

Jonothon,

 

The confusion continues!

So you confirm that the Alawi

are in control in Syria

support Hezbollah and Hamas and

by proxy support the war against Israel

am I reading your right?!

 

But then you say the Baath party are in control in Syria and imply that Alawi people are merely lying low (adapting) until it is their turn to come to power, at which time they will steer Syria on a course to join Western Civilisation.  How will this transition take place?  One thing Muslims are really good at is that once they seize the power of the State they do not give it up!

 

Re theology, if the Alawi are not considered Muslims by the vast majority of Muslims by what right should we/you say that they are followers of Islam?  And are offering a version of Islam that is compatible with Western Civilisation?