How Gangsterism Beats Democracy and Civil Society

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Antony on April 27, 2012 at 11:58

Iran's Meth Empire ; http://frontpagemag.com/2012/04/27/iran%E2%80%99s-meth-empire/?utm_...

and of course there is also the silent but devestating effect heroin and methamphetamine have on our communities.

Permalink Reply by Alan Lake on April 30, 2012 at 5:55

Its amazing that the "authorities" seem to be impotent in the face of threats like that one.  Just the same as with the Muslim gangs grooming underage girls.  You wonder how much their internal processes are paralysed by politically correct monitors and so on.

Permalink Reply by Joe on May 7, 2012 at 16:44

Denmark: 10-12 Muslims pull four tourists out of their car and stab and beat them -- Muslim gang sees the park as "their area"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/05/denmark-10-12-muslims-pull-four-t...

Permalink Reply by Joe on May 7, 2012 at 16:59

Macedonia: mass muslim demonstration, after muslims imprisoned for murdering 4 christians who were out fishing.  The outrage over muslims not being able to kill the kuffar with impunity, leads demonstrators to shout "death to christians" (and, of course, "Alan's Snack Bar".)

http://tundratabloids.com/2012/05/multiculturalism-denied-in-muslim...

Watch the video to the end, to see the multiculturalism works, if done in the right way ;-)

Permalink Reply by Alan Lake on May 9, 2012 at 9:49

There are another 2 factors used to create the gangster controlled enclave, they are tipping points.

1. The Silence Tipping Point
So, if gangsters start to take over your neighbourhood, would you speak out to the police? At the beginning, you could do.  But once they have established a reasonable level of control, its just not worth it, because they know they can easily kill you and the killer can escape detection because nobody else dare speak out as a witness, even if he is seen in the act.  Of course, once the gang have managed to get a corrupt judge or senior policeman installed, it is definitely not worth risking reporting any of their crimes.

You can see that this process has taken place in the gang areas of Karachi, has happened in all Pakistan to non-Muslims, is happening in Muslim controlled areas of Europe like Malmo where the police can no longer operate freely, and seems to be happening to some extent in Russia right now (where its nothing to do with Islam).

2. The Benefit Tipping Point
If you want your gang to grow, you need to offer benefits to new members. Mohammed understood this point to perfection when he started, so he first created the authorised brand of members who would stick together and protect each other, and who acquired a reputation for effective operation as bandits raiding other people's villages and caravans. That is also the principle of 'terror', which Mohammed understood so well, and which bin Laden re-discovered.

Then it was a simple matter of offering membership of that brand to others, with two simple provisos:
(1) You have to commit to total allegiance to the gang.  but once you've done that, you get a pretty free reign in terms of being able to go on banditry raids.
(2) You have to give 20% of the proceeds of every raid to the leader (Mohammed).

Looked at in the cold light of day, that's actually a pretty good deal.  The Islamic Raiding Party brand is a good one, in the sense that in a short space of time, it was so effective, that people really didn't want to fight them at all.  So there's the benefit.  The cost, at 20%, is correspondingly very reasonable.

This is a difficult discussion because I'm trying to generalise about trends, but I don't have time to give data to back up my statements.  But I still want to try draw some patterns.

Al Capone used a similar system to expand his empire, but with different percentages.  

In another sense, the Pork Barrel politics of the US are examples of this gangsterism method in action.  Its not possible to give everyone a handout, but if a local project benefits enough people to tip a politicians vote to majority, or if he rewards a company with a contract and it donates enough money to his campain fund to allow him to win the next election, then that is a gangster method of finely balancing the benefit tipping point such that, say, a 20% cut can be used to gain control of 100% of the area.

So, its not gangsterism if you give all OAP's a £100/month pension rise, because they are starving.  But it is gangsterism if they don't need it but you do it because you've calculates that that is the cheapest way of fudging the next election to get your numbers over the tipping point and get re-elected.  Well, we probably need some more definitions at this point.

Permalink Reply by shiva on May 20, 2012 at 14:54

Strip away the religious facade of Hezbollah, we are left with one of the largest and most dangerous gangs on this planet.

The whole world now knows that Hezbollah is a religiously inspired group of Lebanese Shia Arabs, supported by Syria and Iran that is devoted to the destruction of Israel. They are not Palestinians fighting for a homeland. What the world does not know is that Hezbollah's religious leaders, have also issued a "fatwa," a theological ruling that sanctions worldwide support for the illegal production and distribution of narcotics to finance its war against Israel, America and their democratic allies in the West.

 

In addition to using drug money to finance its terrorist infrastructure Hizbullah believes that their drug trade will help weaken and enervate Western society. Hizbullah religious leaders say, "We are making these drugs for Satan, America and the Jews, if we cannot kill them with guns, so we will kill them with drugs." Some of the evidence points to Canada as one of many places for transshipment and delivery to the United States.

 

As the Bekaa valley is now firmly in the hands of Hezbollah and beyond the control of the weakening central government of the besieged Lebanese State, the news agencies who report on that part of the world are curiously silent about what many people do in the Bekaa valley to make a living, who profits from these activities and where do the profits go.

 

Decades ago the Bekaa valley was a fertile breadbasket watered by the mountains of Lebanon. During the last few decades over two thirds of its arable land has been converted to producing cannabis and the poppies that are at the base of the marijuana and heroin trade.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/print.cfm?pg=custpage&frm=54636...

Michael Braun, formerly assistant administrator and chief of operations at the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), said that the Iran-backed Lebanese group has long been involved in narcotics and human trafficking in South America; however, it is relying on Mexican narcotics syndicates that control access to transit routes into the US Hezbollah relies on “the same criminal weapons smugglers, document traffickers and transportation experts as the drug cartels.”

Only a few months ago, Washington announced that FBI and DEA agents disrupted a plot to commit a “significant terrorist act in the United States,” tied to Iran with roots in Mexico. The increased violence — including beheadings, Islam’s signature trademark — is even more indicative that Islamists are well ensconced in Mexico’s drug cartel.

http://congressmantomtancredo.com/mexican-jihad/

Permalink Reply by Alan Lake on May 21, 2012 at 1:56

Is that Monterrey, California?  Has the US come to this?

I note that some of them seem to have been tortured before being killed, perhaps for information.  Also, there are women there.  Horrific.

Permalink Reply by Alan Lake on May 21, 2012 at 2:28

I'm trying to find generic models of strategy and see how they work.  For example, how can an ideology like Nazism which uses a lot of slave labour and is happy to use torture to get information, be defeated by the British/USA/Aus etc, who tried to treat everyone reasonably and repudiated torture of captured Germans?  Without Stalin's ruthlessness, would it have been possible?  (I know, the answer is really logistic, but you see what I mean.  I'm really wondering if 'good' can win over 'evil').

A strategy doesn't have to be used everywhere all the time to be valid.  So, even if it can be shown that the spread of Islam in Indonesia was by a sort of benign social mobility and cultural interchange, it would not repudiate the Gangster strategic model for use by Islam elsewhere.

The model must not be understood in a narrow sense, as in Mafioso with sub machine guns, or Hezbollah with Kalashnikovs.  Actually there is a specific new discipline that can help here: Complexity Theory.  Complex systems are identified by being Diverse, Connected, Interdependent, and Adaptive.  One of the properties of Complex Systems is the Tipping Point or Phase Transition.  So I'll give examples of that which Islam employs.

A violent tipping point is intimidation.  Islamic thugs only need to beat up or kill one dissident, to silence everyone else.  That degree of threat is sufficient to make it not worth their while for most people to protest.  For most people, the inconveniences of Islam are below the tipping point for taking action, compared to the risk of personal death.  Of course, the situation is compounded by lying, so the population is not even clear about how big a problem Islam will give them - and that also is part of the Gangster model, of course.  So Mohammed had a poetess killed, because her message could encourage others to also criticise him.  The gangster model works.

Another tipping point is bribery.  Thus Islam first spread by recruiting bandits to the army with the promise that they only need deliver 20% of the spoils to the leadership.  Perhaps the same thing is happening now with Lutfur Rachman and Galloway - we may never know.  That commission figure of 20% is just about the right level to make it worth joining to get the benefits of the Islamic brand, so its a tipping point.

But the more interesting tipping points are the hidden social ones.  We hear many reports of mosque construction, followed by problems in the area for non-Muslims, then a fall in local house prices, then further Islamification of the area as those non-Muslim residents sell at below market prices.  I would assert this to be an example of the Gangster model, but its harder to see.  

In your case of Indonesia, it would require further analysis, but I would first look at the effect of the social and religious pressure and law.  For example, if a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry a kaffir, and a Muslim man is allowed to marry a kaffir woman but she has to convert, then that is a gangster model which will have a powerful effect over time.  Add to that the condition that in divorce the children are taken by the man and the children must become Muslim, and you are starting to build a solid model to quietly spread your ideology by gangster means.

Another factor is the non-level playing field.  If I may quote myself:
"The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)"  
So once Islam has control of an area, it can ban the construction of churches or their maintenance; but the Christians do not.  Once again, this is a winning gangster strategy, but it is not so clearly visible as a jihadist army or suicide bomber. 

Permalink Reply by shiva on May 21, 2012 at 8:10

Alan Lake said:








Is that Monterrey, California?  Has the US come to this?

I note that some of them seem to have been tortured before being killed, perhaps for information.  Also, there are women there.  Horrific.








No Alan, it is not the USA, but just South of the border, Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. 23 total people were found dead, 14 of the corpses were beheaded and wrapped in plastic bags, with their heads preserved in separate ice boxes. The other 9, however, The bodies of nine people were found hanging from a bridge in, just 6 miles from the U.S. border. Five were men and four women

 

No Alan, it is not the USA, but just South of the border, Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. 23 total people were found dead, 14 of the corpses were beheaded and wrapped in plastic bags, with their heads preserved in separate ice boxes. The other 9, however, The bodies of nine people were found hanging from a bridge in, just 6 miles from the U.S. border. Five were men and four women

A message left with the bodies identified them as members of the Gulf cartel. A rivaling cartel, Los Zetas, is believed to be responsible for the deaths.
Link

On December 15th it was revealed in an indictment that Hezbollah has a substantial drug connection to the Mexican drug cartel Los Zetas. The Lebanese druglord Ayman Joumaa was indicted in absentia for, “conspiring to smuggle over 90,000 tons of cocaine into America and laundering over $250 million for the cartels”. The druglord has close ties to Hezbollah and functioned as a middle man between the terrorist organization and the cartels.  In terms of raw numbers, the amount of cocaine that he tried to smuggle was equivalent to a cargo of 2,250 eighteen wheelers. The sheer volume of this transaction is cause for concern, but the fact that Hezbollah and Los Zetas are working together is far worse.

Link

Socialist Workers’ Party.

Through its position of leadership in the Stop the War Coalition, the SWP has organised demos — most notably the 5 August demo in London — on which “We are all Hezbollah” placards were carried and their political allies like Yvonne Ridley openly praised the “heroic resistance of Hamas and Hizbollah.”

The SWP’s political idol, George Galloway, also wrote in Socialist Worker 2011 of 29 July, “I glorify the Hizbollah national resistance movement, and I glorify the leader of Hizbollah, Sheikh Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.”

The SWP (a supposedly revolutionary socialist, Trotskyist organisation) makes no claims to oppose Hizbollah (a brazenly clerical-fascist organisation funded by Iranian and Syrian capitalism), choosing instead to mumble about (presumably trivial) "ideological differences".

This is nothing new for the SWP; they have, in the past, uncritically published articles by members of Hamas and the Shia-sectarian Mahdi Army (another religious gangster organization), responsible for such progressive “acts of resistance” as attacking unveiled women and the racist massacre of a gypsy settlement in Iraq.

Permalink Reply by Antony on May 21, 2012 at 8:27

Shiva - above, you mention the islamist massacre of a gypsy settlement in Iraq - do you have any links etc for this ? in the UK right now, there has been increased interest in Gypsy culture, with TV series etc, and the left & "counter-culture" trying to side with them, so this information would be useful if in the public eye.

Permalink Reply by shiva on May 21, 2012 at 12:47

Alan Lake said:

I'm trying to find generic models of strategy and see how they work.  For example, how can an ideology like Nazism which uses a lot of slave labour and is happy to use torture to get information, be defeated by the British/USA/Aus etc, who tried to treat everyone reasonably and repudiated torture of captured Germans?  Without Stalin's ruthlessness, would it have been possible?  (I know, the answer is really logistic, but you see what I mean.  I'm really wondering if 'good' can win over 'evil').

 

This thing about good and evil is very complex, You, myself and most other members here where born and grew up in the west, and conditioned that the west is good, we are also conditioned to comply with the written and unwritten rules, anything that doesn't comply is regarded as evil, such as Islam. On the other hand those born into islam also undergo a stricter form conditioning. So what we have are two groups who are conditioned to believe they good and the other is evil.

There are two golden rules that applies to both the west and islam, is you do not step out of the box, and keep your mouth shut.

Basically, I believe, if both we and muslims in general could separate from our elites (who work hand in hand) the we would find we have a lot in common, if both sides are honest.

Alan said A strategy doesn't have to be used everywhere all the time to be valid. So, even if it can be shown that the spread of Islam in Indonesia was by a sort of benign social mobility and cultural interchange, it would not repudiate the Gangster strategic model for use by Islam elsewhere.

Very true, I brought up Indonesia because the islamization of Britain is following the lines of the islamization of Indonesia

Alan said A violent tipping point is intimidation. Islamic thugs only need to beat up or kill one dissident, to silence everyone else. That degree of threat is sufficient to make it not worth their while for most people to protest. For most people, the inconveniences of Islam are below the tipping point for taking action, compared to the risk of personal death. Of course, the situation is compounded by lying, so the population is not even clear about how big a problem Islam will give them - and that also is part of the Gangster model, of course. So Mohammed had a poetess killed, because her message could encourage others to also criticise him. The gangster model works.

The tipping point in Indonesia was described by Time "West’s best news for years in Asia" referring to the massacre in 1965

In Java, much of the killing was along aliran (cultural stream) loyalties; the Army encouraged santri (more devout and orthodox Muslims) among the Javanese to seek out PKI members among the abangan (less orthodox) Javanese.] The killings extended to more than PKI members. In Java, for example, many considered "left PNI" were killed. Others were just suspects[ or were the victims of grievance settling with little or no political motive. In mid-October, Suharto sent para-commando troops he trusted as loyal into Central Java, a region with strong Communist allegiances, while troops of uncertain loyalty were ordered out. Anti-Communist killings were then instigated with youths, assisted by the Army, hunting down Communists.
Conflict that had broken out in 1963 between the Muslim party Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and the PKI turned to killing in the second week of October. The Muslim group Muhammadiyah proclaimed in early November 1965 that the extermination of "Gestapu/PKI" constituted Holy War ("Gestapu" being the military's name for the "30 September Movement"), a position that was supported by other Islamic groups in Java and Sumatra. For many youths, killing Communists became a religious duty. Where there had been Communist centres in Central and East Java, Muslim groups portraying themselves as victims of Communist aggression justified the killings by evoking the Madiun Affair of 1948. Roman Catholic students in the Yogyakarta region left their hostels at night to join in the execution of truckloads of arrested Communists.
Although, for most of the country, the killings subsided in the first months of 1966, in parts of East Java the killings went on for years. In Blitar, guerrilla action was maintained by surviving PKI members until they were defeated in 1967 and 1968. The mystic Mbah Suro, and devotees of his Communist-infused traditional mysticism, built an army, but Suro and eighty of his followers were killed in a war of resistance against the Indonesian Army

Alan said Another tipping point is bribery. Thus Islam first spread by recruiting bandits to the army with the promise that they only need deliver 20% of the spoils to the leadership. Perhaps the same thing is happening now with Lutfur Rachman and Galloway - we may never know. That commission figure of 20% is just about the right level to make it worth joining to get the benefits of the Islamic brand, so its a tipping point.

If not cash then nice comfy jobs

Alan said But the more interesting tipping points are the hidden social ones. We hear many reports of mosque construction, followed by problems in the area for non-Muslims, then a fall in local house prices, then further Islamification of the area as those non-Muslim residents sell at below market prices. I would assert this to be an example of the Gangster model, but its harder to see

Yes Alan, it is true about mosques, they are always planned larger than what is really needed, but planned for the future new muslims to the area.

Alan said In your case of Indonesia, it would require further analysis, but I would first look at the effect of the social and religious pressure and law. For example, if a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry a kaffir, and a Muslim man is allowed to marry a kaffir woman but she has to convert, then that is a gangster model which will have a powerful effect over time. Add to that the condition that in divorce the children are taken by the man and the children must become Muslim, and you are starting to build a solid model to quietly spread your ideology by gangster means.

That is a bitch about the marriage thing, I have often thought about converting, as it would make life easier, but instead looked for loopholes around this problem. What I find disturbing, many men from britain come here looking for wives, and convert to islam, and then bring their wives back to the UK, I know of one case where the bloke went as far as to circumcise himself, even though it is not a condition for converting to Islam

Which brings us to another point you missed, many gangs have initiation ceremonies, with islam it is called is the term for circumcision carried out as an Islamic rite. It's considered by some as a sign of belonging or introduction to the wider Islamic community. It is also referred to by the term Taharah, 'purity'(which is a load of bull).

Alan said Another factor is the non-level playing field. If I may quote myself:
"The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field (it advantages thugs)"
So once Islam has control of an area, it can ban the construction of churches or their maintenance; but the Christians do not. Once again, this is a winning gangster strategy, but it is not so clearly visible as a jihadist army or suicide bomber.

True what you say, it is the invisible strategy that is the winner, just look how Tower Hamlets has become a muslim enclave, with out the use of a jihadist army or suicide bombers.

Permalink Reply by Alan Lake on May 22, 2012 at 1:58

Thanks for the comment.  Its great to see that many of us here on 4F are starting to converge on common understanding of what's going on and the models being used.  The fact that you can confirm this model in the remote (for me) regions of Indonesia, shows how all pervasive it is.

This understanding should certainly help us to deal with the Leftist fascists.

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