The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the socialist party playing war-games on Uttoya island (pretending to break "the siege of Gaza")?

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/cowardice-on-utya.html#...


Criticized for fleeing Utøya

AUF leader Eskil Pedersen is criticized for fleeing Utøya on board the passenger ferry MS Thorbjørn.

In an interview with the BBC Pedersen gives his perspective on the flight and the criticism that followed afterwards. Nine people escaped the island onboard the ferry when the massacre occurred.

“I think I acted the way people would normally act in such circumstances, on instinct. I did as I was told and boarded the vessel, based on the information I had at the time,” Pedersen says in the interview, excerpts from which NRK showed last Sunday.

Now he is criticized from within the ranks of the AUF about the choices he made on July 22, 2011. AUF member Bjørn Ihler survived the massacre by hiding on the southern tip of the island.

“It’s easy to say that this is how people would react, that most would have fled the island. But this was the leader of the people on the island. It is akin to a captain abandoning ship,” Ihler says.

“Our only hope”

Adrian Pracon, County Secretary of Telemark AUF, describes the ordeal in his book, Heart to the stone, about how he was lying on a rock and simply couldn’t believe that the ferry had left the island.


MS Thorbjørn was our only hope, and now it had left without us,” Pracon writes in the book. Pracon was shot in the shoulder, but survived the massacre by playing dead. He later stressed that this passage is not in any way meant as a criticism of Pedersen or the crew onboard MS Thorbjørn.

Pedersen said he acted on instinct and that he was told by others to get on the ferry.

“The offender has stated in interviews that I was his main target on Utøya. He had studied pictures of me and wanted to kill me. It is important to remember this,” says Pedersen.

“Does not recollect details”

The ferry departed Utøya around 17.30, fifteen minutes after Anders Breivik Behring made landfall. While the ferry was heading away from the island on the Tyri lake, several of the people on Utøya contacted the ferry with their cell phones and pleaded with the crew to return.

Pedersen says he does not remember who made the decision not to return.

“It is very difficult to analyze the choices that people made that day and what could have been done differently. It’s a hypothetical question that only produces hypothetical answers,” he says.

Merker: -, Coward, Eskil, Island, Pedersen, The, Utøya, of

Visninger: 1715

Svar til denne diskusjonen

Its true brevik did want to kill Pedersen, and its true some people believe in karma. But we can't decide someone should die or should HAVE died. Brevik murdered 77 people, one more would have made 78 to many.

 If we disgree with the lefts point of view then we have to argue all the more against their ideas so that we pursuade others to our ideas.  Executing people will solve nothing. Breviks actions will solve nothing, it just means more people are now victims of terror.

Morrigan said 'It SEEMS brevik missed one', in breviks mind he could well believe he has, i'm sure thats what Morrigan ment. Being a scaredy cat isn't a crime and i,m glad brevik missed some. I wish he'd missed them all.     
 
Kinana said:

Breivik did not 'miss one' as he should not have murdered anyone.  The murder of a 'coward' is still murder.

Muhammad was a coward, so was Hitler. what do you suggest should have been done to them? And do you think the British Army "murders" people or their killing is justified?

Kinana said:

Breivik did not 'miss one' as he should not have murdered anyone.  The murder of a 'coward' is still murder.

If a leader of people is encouraging them to support massacres and terrorism in another country, I think this leader should be dealt with. Killing is always the last option. Always. I would personally rather see them live with their guilty conscience.

Some crimes are too horrendous to even contemplate allowing such person to share this world with us, but then again this is my opinion, and I am pretty sure it's many people's opinions too, principally when these crimes "hit home",  ie. happen to someone in our families.

I am still a conservative and believe in "an eye for an eye". The punishment must fit the crime. And let me remind you all (religious people or not) that although we see "Thou shall not kill" in the bible, we ALSO see the same G-d giving commands to people to KILL certain people/groups of people. If you know your bible you will see that too.

I am not religious and I do not condone any killing on religious grounds, but I firmly believe people have the utmost right to defend themselves from harmful individuals when they need.

If Hitler had been killed he would not have caused the death of 11 million people. Right or wrong?

So please.. I am not interested in puritan views, but rational ones. We are debating serious issues and frankly I do not care who reads this. I am not here to appease the leftist media. 

I agree cowardice is not a crime, but betrayal is. And I also believe enablers are betraying our countries and our people.  

Morrigan you say,

So please.. I am not interested in puritan views, but rational ones. We are debating serious issues and frankly I do not care who reads this. I am not here to appease the leftist media.

Your absolutly right, none of us are. What we must continue to do is pursuade others that our views are the right views.  By seperating ourselfs from the violent marxist thugs we give a clear choise to people in the middle who will have to choose where they stand. If we imploy the same way of behaving as the left, then the choise's people have to make become less clear to them.

As for for weather hitler should have been killed befor he caused a world war? who could have known.  Hitler himself was having people executed who he thought were dangerous. What about Alexandra the great, or many of the roman emperor's, many lives could have been saved had we antisipated the out come of their rule.

If people are tried and convicted of crimes and the law dictates they should be put to death then fine. If theres no death penalty and people want one they will have to campaign hard for its introduction because we know the left don't want a death penaty, they just want to kill (by accident) antone who disagree's with them.

Just one question. If it was known that brevik was Thinking  about  killing  all those people, would you have had him put to death when he was a boy.

Paul,

Our views are the right views. I don't feel the need to try and persuade anyone of that but of course I totally understand your point and you are right, we must do so. Only I personally don't have the patience. I believe if an individual has his heart in the right place, and his mind is sane, then he/she will come to the same conclusion we have. Justice is necessary and sometimes you must go through wars to achieve peace. It's not rocket science but human nature.

As for dictators like Hitler, it seems History still does not make an impression on us, right? We should be learning from the past. My point is not predicting their crime but putting a stop to it when these signs start appearing.

Saddam murdered thousands of people before he was stopped. So did Hitler. We tend to take far too long to stop evil on its tracks.

We cannot use the method of prediction (as in the film: minority report) for crimes yet. What I mean is that we should be more efficient in curbing the evil as soon as it is made manifest. I am not talking about physical punishment but laws.

For example: We know doctors are offering FGM in the UK. Why haven't we ensured that anyone caught doing this would go to prison? Why do we need to wait for 100,000 women to have their genital parts mutilated before we start "investigating"?

These delays in action are the issues.

I don't interpret the remarks quoted below to be an incitement to kill Pedersen.  But now that someone has interprete it is an incitement, we have revised our Code of Conduct to make it clear, that whilst 4F is founded on the primary importance of freedom of speech, any member of this community who in the future incites or endorses extra-judicial killing would be explicitly in breach of the Code of Conduct.  The salient section in this regard is 2.1(b) of the Code of Conduct

http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/admin/forum/topics/behaviour-standa...

Morrigan Emaleth said:

It seems Breivik missed one. This is precisely the coward that should have been killed. Cowards can run but eventually they meet their fate. May KARMA play its part now. 

Morrigan said,

As for dictators like Hitler, it seems History still does not make an impression on us, right? We should be learning from the past. My point is not predicting their crime but putting a stop to it when these signs start appearing.

Saddam murdered thousands of people before he was stopped. So did Hitler. We tend to take far too long to stop evil on its tracks.

This is absolutly true. Govenments spend too much time swaying public opinion backwards and forwards, instead of doing the right thing. Often govenments look as though they allow someone like saddam to commit anus crimes for some other political agenda. When saddam gassed those kurds nothing was done. When saddam annexed Q8, in we go. There would have been no Iraq war if action had been taken earlier.

The reason we are in trouble now with islam is because our ruling elite did not take action earlier. We need to expose those that still refuse to protect us. We need to vote in people who will take action, and we will need to convince people we are right. I understand your frustration, we have been let down badly by those we trusted. We are having the futures of our children flushed down the toilet by corrupt greedy elites and their band of followers. People need to see the truth for themselves, then the guilty can be tried for their crimes.

If people can't be pursuaded then they get the govenment they deserve.  Look at france, they look like allowing a socialist to become Prez, even though the truth is most people voted for a consevative  candidate.  

Funny that... Hitler was actually inspired by Islam. When will they investigate/ban it? ;)

Antony said:

The Scandalous Lies of Hope Not Hate - Bruce Bawer hits the nail on the head again ; http://frontpagemag.com/2012/04/20/the-scandalous-lies-of-hope-not-...

And just to put the Coward of Utoya Island's behaviour into stark contrast.  While he was getting away from the island as fast as he could, two lesbians were busying rescuing young people from the water.  As Pedersen was looking to save his cowardly skin, the two women got into their boat and sailed to the island.  They made 4 trips, with Breivik's bullets hitting their boat, rescuing 40 people.  How is it that the Norwegian police's incompetence, and Pedersen's cowardice are responsible for as many lives lost as these women saved.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/08/03/lesbian-couple-saved-40-teenag...

Pedersen makes excuses for himself saying it was "instinct" and what anyone else would have done.  Well, demonstrably that is not the case.  His instinct was to save himself, and leave his protégés behind.  

You can see the size of the ferry here: 

I doubt the boat of the two brave lesbians was anything like as big or substantial as the ferry.  It is hard to judge from that photo, but it is possible that the cabin thingy towards the back is made of metal.  

Pedersen and his party have tried to suppress information about the ferry, and his actions.  http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/10/27/ut%C3%B8ya-ferrys-role-now-u...

Pedersen and AUF colleagues have tried to suppress some media coverage of the aftermath of the attacks, and also didn’t want media to accompany the commission when its members visited Utøya recently

Someone mentioned that Pedersen and the others aboard the ferry switched off their mobile phones rather than hear people phone pleading for help.  I cannot find a reference for that.  So, if anyone else has got one, it would be good to include that in this thread.

OMG!!! I got to say, WOMEN are really far more braver than men! ;) But then again, I always knew that.

I wasn't aware of the full extend of Eskil's cowardice but in my experience of life when push comes to shove, the ones who incited the wrongs in the first place are ALWAYS the first ones to RUN. 

I also didn't know about these Lesbians rescuing the people in the Island. Wow! 4 trips to the Island amongst bullets? These women deserve a medal for their sheer bravery and heroism! Their actions speak volumes!

The only thing I find regretful is that they did not go after Eskil to ask him WHY he was leading a group supporting Palestinian terrorists who are led by a TERRORIST organization that preaches the MURDER OF GAYS. Now that would have been an interesting challenge and conversation. Apart from proving without a doubt that Eskil is a coward, they would also expose his nefarious leadership and BETRAYAL against the people of Norway, his own people.

 
Joe said:

And just to put the Coward of Utoya Island's behaviour into stark contrast.  While he was getting away from the island as fast as he could, two lesbians were busying rescuing young people from the water.  As Pedersen was looking to save his cowardly skin, the two women got into their boat and sailed to the island.  They made 4 trips, with Breivik's bullets hitting their boat, rescuing 40 people.  How is it that the Norwegian police's incompetence, and Pedersen's cowardice are responsible for as many lives lost as these women saved.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/08/03/lesbian-couple-saved-40-teenag...

Pedersen makes excuses for himself saying it was "instinct" and what anyone else would have done.  Well, demonstrably that is not the case.  His instinct was to save himself, and leave his protégés behind.  

You can see the size of the ferry here: 

I doubt the boat of the two brave lesbians was anything like as big or substantial as the ferry.  It is hard to judge from that photo, but it is possible that the cabin thingy towards the back is made of metal.  

Pedersen and his party have tried to suppress information about the ferry, and his actions.  http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/10/27/ut%C3%B8ya-ferrys-role-now-u...

Pedersen and AUF colleagues have tried to suppress some media coverage of the aftermath of the attacks, and also didn’t want media to accompany the commission when its members visited Utøya recently

Someone mentioned that Pedersen and the others aboard the ferry switched off their mobile phones rather than hear people phone pleading for help.  I cannot find a reference for that.  So, if anyone else has got one, it would be good to include that in this thread.

Norwegian government banning state employees from discussing Pedersen's cowardice and lack of leadership on Utoya Island.

One of the stenographers employed by the Norwegian Parliament described AUF leader Eskil Pedersen’s escape from Utøya Island as “child sacrifice” on his Facebook page. The man in question has now been fired from his temporary job as a parliamentary stenographer.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/07/warning-to-norwegian-civil-servant...

Norway truly has a fascistic one-party state.

The fascists always protect their own, no matter how cowardly and cheap they behave.

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Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

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