Was Norwegian Defence League a Honeytrap (or something worse)? - The 4 Freedoms Library2024-03-29T11:45:53Zhttp://4freedoms.com/forum/topics/was-norwegian-defence-league-a-honeytrap-or-something-worse?groupUrl=norway&commentId=3766518%3AComment%3A119243&groupId=3766518%3AGroup%3A5218&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHistory repeats itself: the f…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-24:3766518:Comment:1192442013-02-24T12:59:07.142ZJoehttp://4freedoms.com/profile/38DD
<p>History repeats itself: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.</p>
<p>- Karl Marx</p>
<p>If people read anything by Marx, they should read <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon</span>.</p>
<p>We are in a re-run of the 1930s. It is farcical. It is Weimar Germany, only the fascists are going round proclaiming themselves to be anti-fascists. All the rest will follow. Hyper-inflation, economic collapse, war, genocide.</p>
<p>Perhaps war…</p>
<p>History repeats itself: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.</p>
<p>- Karl Marx</p>
<p>If people read anything by Marx, they should read <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon</span>.</p>
<p>We are in a re-run of the 1930s. It is farcical. It is Weimar Germany, only the fascists are going round proclaiming themselves to be anti-fascists. All the rest will follow. Hyper-inflation, economic collapse, war, genocide.</p>
<p>Perhaps war will be declared on Holocaust Memorial Day, when Iran will launch a nuclear strike on the greatest concentration of jews on earth. The InterNational Socialists will applaud their fascist allies from the country named Aryan (that is what "Iran" means).</p> Yes, you'd think there would…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-24:3766518:Comment:1192432013-02-24T12:42:47.538ZAlan Lakehttp://4freedoms.com/profile/AlanLake
<p>Yes, you'd think there would be a way to harness that discontent ... but its surprisingly difficult!</p>
<p>Yes, you'd think there would be a way to harness that discontent ... but its surprisingly difficult!</p> Sorry to have been boring Ala…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-24:3766518:Comment:1193072013-02-24T09:56:36.884ZPhilip Smeetonhttp://4freedoms.com/profile/PhilipSmeeton
<p>Sorry to have been boring Alan. I am very angry about what has been allowed to happen to our England. There must be a way to harness the discontent that large numbers of Britons feel. I hope it is true to say that governments that ignore the will of the people will fall, however much they resort to becoming a police state.</p>
<p>Sorry to have been boring Alan. I am very angry about what has been allowed to happen to our England. There must be a way to harness the discontent that large numbers of Britons feel. I hope it is true to say that governments that ignore the will of the people will fall, however much they resort to becoming a police state.</p> Philip,
I have to return you…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-24:3766518:Comment:1189912013-02-24T00:41:44.291ZAlan Lakehttp://4freedoms.com/profile/AlanLake
<p>Philip,</p>
<p>I have to return you to Joe's question. Your statements about large groups and a healthy functioning democratic methods within them are very nice, but in real world situations, its just not like that at all. I simply can't relate what you are saying to what I've witnessed in organisations in the UK, where a few determined individuals are able to destroy the whole thing.</p>
<p>And what experience do you have of police and government agitators? Do you have any idea of the…</p>
<p>Philip,</p>
<p>I have to return you to Joe's question. Your statements about large groups and a healthy functioning democratic methods within them are very nice, but in real world situations, its just not like that at all. I simply can't relate what you are saying to what I've witnessed in organisations in the UK, where a few determined individuals are able to destroy the whole thing.</p>
<p>And what experience do you have of police and government agitators? Do you have any idea of the kinds of things they can do to cause harm?</p>
<p>Let me try put this another way. Do you know any couple that have children and got divorced? Then were you able to witness either of those parents poisoning the minds of their children with regard to the other parent, by subtle statements and deprecatory remarks, or even by sighing or raising an eyebrow? I'm sorry, do you know what I'm getting at here? because I'm giving up on the topic now.</p>
<p>P.S.1 none of this is about stopping speaking out as an individual or otherwise. We should all continue to speak out. We are talking about the logistics of trying to run an organisation and stop it from being destroyed by agent provocateurs.</p>
<p>P.S.2 I used the term "truth" tongue in cheek. Its too deep a subject to go into here, but hopefully it cast light on what I intended to mean. </p>
<p><cite>Joe said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://4freedoms.ning.com/forum/topics/was-norwegian-defence-league-a-honeytrap-or-something-worse?groupUrl=norway&xg_source=activity&groupId=3766518%3AGroup%3A5218&id=3766518%3ATopic%3A119128&page=1#3766518Comment119237"><div><p>"<span>I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations as a problem if we openly express our aims and opinions."</span></p>
<p><span>Are you an active member of any counter-jihad organisation in the real world? </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote> An excerpt from Asle Toje's b…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-23:3766518:Comment:1189902013-02-23T17:40:27.801ZPhilip Smeetonhttp://4freedoms.com/profile/PhilipSmeeton
<p>An excerpt from Asle Toje's book: Red, White and Blue- On Democracy in Europe.</p>
<p>RØDT, HVITT & BLÅTT- Om demokratiet i Europa. Dreyers Forlag, Oslo, 2012.</p>
<p>Translated by me.</p>
<p></p>
<p>On Another Planet.</p>
<p>Bergsjon, Sweden. The district now has a ninety-three percent population of immigrants and is Gothenburg's poorest area, with the highest unemployment and the lowest income per capita. Bergsjon has also the lowest election turn-out in the city.</p>
<p>In the grey…</p>
<p>An excerpt from Asle Toje's book: Red, White and Blue- On Democracy in Europe.</p>
<p>RØDT, HVITT & BLÅTT- Om demokratiet i Europa. Dreyers Forlag, Oslo, 2012.</p>
<p>Translated by me.</p>
<p></p>
<p>On Another Planet.</p>
<p>Bergsjon, Sweden. The district now has a ninety-three percent population of immigrants and is Gothenburg's poorest area, with the highest unemployment and the lowest income per capita. Bergsjon has also the lowest election turn-out in the city.</p>
<p>In the grey autumn air the district does not resemble a social pressure cooker, it looks rather boring. The apartment blocks are reasonably well-kept. There is no more garbage and tagging here than in any other area of the city. Though the balcony flower boxes, the traditional window sill lights and the typically white curtains blowing in the summer breeze from open windows, that witness the Swede's love of their homes, are absent.</p>
<p>For unknown reasons all of the street names are dedicated to space research. Zenith Way, Telescope Street, Space Place- as if fragments of the collapse of the Soviet Union had crash landed in a Swedish forest. In Comet Square I came into conversation with Linda Karlsson, a talkative 60 year old woman that has herself moved out of Bergsjon, but that is on a Friday visit to her mother. She claims that it was the resourceful Swedes that moved out first, led by the families with children. This because, she says, of the fall in quality of school education, a result of that fewer and fewer pupils were fluent in Swedish.</p>
<p>She claims that it is weakness by the authorities with regard to the rights of the original population that has made people unwilling to fight to preserve their local culture. « it was the incident with the teacher that was stabbed that was the final straw that made us decide to move out of town». After a lot of searching I finally found an article about the incident I presume that she meant.</p>
<p>Teachers Journal nr. 17/1999 tells of the teacher Greger Mossberg at Bergsjo School who witnessed the theft of a flat screen TV from the school premises. As he recognised the pupils that carried off the TV he reported them to the police the next day. The thieves got wind of this and that evening rang his doorbell. He opened the door and recognised one of the youths from the night before. The boy had taken three friends with him. Greger is beaten and stabbed. Two of the boys that showed up at Mossberg's home are charged in court for theft or fencing, assault and causing grievous bodily harm. But all that the court accepts as proven is that Greger Mosseberg was attacked the night after he reported the theft to the police. The two young men he pointed out are given alibis by their girlfriends and parents. The court chooses to believe them. Greger Mosseberg's claim for compensation and justice is rejected.«wild jubilation broke out among the youths present in the courtroom when the verdict was read out».</p>
<p>What the official explanations have in common is that they see immigrants as passive participants, clients that haven't received the help they have a right to expect from a Social-Democracy. I ring Hakan D. He was a DJ in a nightclub in Hissingen, in the early 1990's when I myself was in the scene down there. H voices an opinion you often meet on the internet, but seldom in the newspapers in Sweden, that parts of the immigrant population do not want to be included. With the sincerity that Gothenburgers are known for in Sweden he adds- yes, he talks about the Muslims. He means that behind all of the talk about racism lies the fact that many immigrants have not bothered to learn the professional and cultural skills needed in order to function in the Swedish job market.</p>
<p>«A stupid-kind welfare state finances this chosen self-exclusion that is marked by a growing hostility towards the host nation».</p>
<p>He is not willing to put his name to his opinion because such public statements invariably lead to becoming labelled racist. And in Sweden racists lose their jobs.</p>
<p>The Swedish researcher Maria Backman has described how Swedes that come into a minority situation experience mobbing because of their culture and religion. Backman has done research at a further-education school where talented Swedish students transfer to less conflicted schools. In spite of her findings this converse racism remains a non-topic. Other researchers have wrongly concluded that this form of racism is limited. Debating such topics is considered beneficial to far-right political parties such as the Swedish Democrats- and no decent citizen would lend aid to any such party. Those that are victims of this racism are outraged by this offhandedness. That journalists have decided that their experiences are are not worthy a mention only worsens matters.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Asle Toje's book reflects my own experience of the situation in Europe. I have witnessed, in Norway, a teacher threatened with a pistol by a refugee from Afghanistan and a pupil robbed in the schoolyard by a Somali that held a knife to the boy's throat. I have also been threatened with violence in the classroom and experienced the lack of will to receive an education that the Muslims demonstrate. European children deserved better than to have criminals forced upon them by Left-Wing theoreticians and to be denied an adequate education due to the undermining of the education system by mass-immigration.</p> I think small groups are more…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-23:3766518:Comment:1192402013-02-23T17:36:10.167ZPhilip Smeetonhttp://4freedoms.com/profile/PhilipSmeeton
<p>I think small groups are more vulnerable to infiltration. The task is more difficult in large well organised democratic political parties. As you say there will be infighting but this in large groups is part of the political process. I feel that democracy and freedom of expression are worth the effort.</p>
<p>Much of what we now accept as truth has not existed before, I'm sure I would have been content and of good conscience if I had been a slave owner a couple of hundred years ago.</p>
<p>I…</p>
<p>I think small groups are more vulnerable to infiltration. The task is more difficult in large well organised democratic political parties. As you say there will be infighting but this in large groups is part of the political process. I feel that democracy and freedom of expression are worth the effort.</p>
<p>Much of what we now accept as truth has not existed before, I'm sure I would have been content and of good conscience if I had been a slave owner a couple of hundred years ago.</p>
<p>I don't think there is any such beast as the truth, there is only feeling. I feel that it is wrong to kill a girl for wanting an education and for wanting to be treated as an equal by men. Emancipation is not a truth, we choose to accept it as a value based on emotion.</p>
<p>Some of the things I think I do not expect anyone to agree with, but that doesn't bother me, I keep them to myself.</p>
<p>We are brainwashed, educated and influenced, but sometimes some of us make up our own minds about something and if are we lucky can we find someone to agree with us</p>
<p>I admit that I am naive and that we have to be aware that there are those that want to silence us, but I do not intend to be shut up. </p> I don't see infiltration of n…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-23:3766518:Comment:1189882013-02-23T16:20:32.411ZAlan Lakehttp://4freedoms.com/profile/AlanLake
<blockquote><p><span>I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations as a problem if we openly express our aims and opinions.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span>I wish that were true. You are speaking from a position there which is something like:</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span>In the end the truth will shine through, and it will become obvious to everyone that those who behave in a righteous and decent way are on the side of freedom,equality and truth, and they will consequently…</span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p><span>I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations as a problem if we openly express our aims and opinions.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span>I wish that were true. You are speaking from a position there which is something like:</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span>In the end the truth will shine through, and it will become obvious to everyone that those who behave in a righteous and decent way are on the side of freedom,equality and truth, and they will consequently prevail.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span>Unfortunately, that is not true. In modern times, it is now obvious, that its possible to suppress and waylay the truth, forever. Its also possible to paint Mother Teresa as the 'bad guy', if you want, and forever. I would go further than that and say that if it weren't for the intervention of the ruthless totalitarian tyrant Stalin, the Nazis would have beaten us (prior to the Atom Bomb, anyway).</span></p>
<p><span>Perhaps what you were trying to say was that if we haven't got any secret agendas, like to blow up building, then infiltration isn't a problem. Sadly that too, is not true. As you know, every small group of humans, on any part of the planet, is subject to constant bickering, squabbling and eventually, splitting, and that happens <em>when all of them have it in their own interests to stay together! </em>Therefore, if one of them has the express intent of breaking the group up, how easy do you think its going to be?</span></p> "I don't see infiltration of…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-23:3766518:Comment:1192372013-02-23T13:32:41.096ZJoehttp://4freedoms.com/profile/38DD
<p>"<span>I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations as a problem if we openly express our aims and opinions."</span></p>
<p><span>Are you an active member of any counter-jihad organisation in the real world? </span></p>
<p>"<span>I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations as a problem if we openly express our aims and opinions."</span></p>
<p><span>Are you an active member of any counter-jihad organisation in the real world? </span></p> It is international cooperati…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-23:3766518:Comment:1192362013-02-23T13:12:40.662ZPhilip Smeetonhttp://4freedoms.com/profile/PhilipSmeeton
<p>It is international cooperation and treaties that are messing everything up. We are being forced to accept things that are not in our national interest. We have to get back to independent national states and try to get them to stop going to war with each other. The problem is that left-wing theoreticians are doing all that they can to deconstruct nations and patriotism.</p>
<p>Beware of conspriracy theories they are designed to split us. I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations…</p>
<p>It is international cooperation and treaties that are messing everything up. We are being forced to accept things that are not in our national interest. We have to get back to independent national states and try to get them to stop going to war with each other. The problem is that left-wing theoreticians are doing all that they can to deconstruct nations and patriotism.</p>
<p>Beware of conspriracy theories they are designed to split us. I don't see infiltration of nationalist organisations as a problem if we openly express our aims and opinions. The Norwegian intelligence services pulled the plug on the NDL because they were afraid that it would attract so many sincere members that they would lose control of it and have inadvertently created a viable nationalist movement that might actually attain political power.</p> I take that further. LibLabC…tag:4freedoms.com,2013-02-23:3766518:Comment:1189812013-02-23T12:01:23.022ZJoehttp://4freedoms.com/profile/38DD
<p>I take that further. LibLabCon are on record as colluding with the media to ensure the BNP only ever get negative publicity. If these actions don't shock people (collusion between all 3 main parties, political collusion between them an all the MSM), then their minds have already been badly contaminated.…</p>
<p></p>
<p>I take that further. LibLabCon are on record as colluding with the media to ensure the BNP only ever get negative publicity. If these actions don't shock people (collusion between all 3 main parties, political collusion between them an all the MSM), then their minds have already been badly contaminated.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/main-parties-accused-of-failing-to-confront-the-bnp-1936714.html">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/main-parties-accused-of-failing-to-confront-the-bnp-1936714.html</a><br/><br/>But I think it goes further. I think the BNP was setup (or comandeered) with the sole purpose of making nationalism and/or opposition to the EU unthinkable to the vast majority of the electorate. LibLabCon only need to ensure that they offer a menu that (collectively) is 96% the same, and it looks like voters have a choice. Provided that the (deliberately) toxic BNP is the party that offers the policies LibLabCon don't want chosen, LibLabCon get their way at every turn.</p>
<p>And it all looks like it is open and democratic.</p>
<p>This means the BNP needs to exist as this toxic asset, but it must be held in check, and is constantly kept under observation to check that it doesn't escape and become a really popular party. Before taking over the National Socialist party, Hitler was a secret police agent infiltrating the party. The Bolsheviks were originally a party created by the secret police. <a href="http://cnparm.home.texas.net/Nat/Rus/Rus06.htm">http://cnparm.home.texas.net/Nat/Rus/Rus06.htm</a></p>
<p><br/> <cite>Antony said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://4freedoms.ning.com/forum/topics/was-norwegian-defence-league-a-honeytrap-or-something-worse?groupUrl=norway&commentId=3766518%3AComment%3A118978&xg_source=activity&groupId=3766518%3AGroup%3A5218#3766518Comment118978"><div><p>A bit off the original topic, but I think the main reason why Cameroon slagged off UKIP and other patriot type groups as "racist" is because of their anti-EU policy, rather than sour grapes over rivalry or because he cares about race relations, they can then be set up for ostracism,ridicule,harassment,spying,disruption..or even banning or violence by leftists, islamists and black racists.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>