The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation 

Exactly what muslims all over Europe should have been calling for in the past 50 years.  They flee their own disastrous countries and then most just bring the problem with them.

Tuesday, February 28, 2012

No Quran in Spain

Petición Prohibir el Corán en España

A Pakistani apostate now resident in Spain wants the Spanish government to ban the Koran. Below is the message we received yesterday from “Imran Firasat”, the owner of the Spanish website World without Islam:

I have formally asked the Spanish government through a legal petition for the prohibition of the Quran in Spain.

Many newspapers from Spain and some other European countries have published this news. I would like to request you to publish this very important and necessary news on your website please. We have to help each other in our fight against the Islamic dragon.

My petition calling for the prohibition of Quran is the sign of a grand revolution which we shall bring together against Islam. With this email I send you scans of the petition presented to the numerous institutions of Spanish Government. And below here I send you some links of media which published this news, and then after the links you can find the English translation of the news.

1. Un pakistaní afincado en España pide formalmente “la prohibición de...
2. Un refugiado pakistaní residente en España pide la prohibición del ...
3. Pakistansk flygtning opfordrer til at Koranen skal forbydes

The English translation of the news:

A Pakistani settled in Spain asks formally “the prohibition of Quran”

“Imran Firasat” A Pakistani citizen with legal residence in Spain as a political refugee has presented an official petition to the numerous institutions of the Spanish government calling for the prohibition of the Quran.

Imran has formally sent the petition to the President of Spain, Parliament of Spain, ministry of the exterior and also to the ministry of the interior. A copy of the petition is attached at the end of this news.

In the document presented to the government of Spain, Imran reveals 10 points which will support his petition for banning the Quran:

1. The Quran is not a sacred and religious book, but a violent book, full of hatred and discrimination.
2. The Quran is a horrible book which provokes a community calls Muslims to undertake Jihad, kill innocent people and destroy the peace of the world.
3. The Quran is responsible for all the terrorism we have seen in recent years in which thousands of people lost their lives.
4. The Quran is a book which contains evil teachings and forces its believers to capture the entire world and total power at any price.
5. The Quran is a book which legally permits and incites hatred and violence and for that reason it is not compatible with the modern world including Spain.
6. The Quran is a book which directly discriminates between human beings.
7. The Quran is a book which doesn’t allow freedom of expression nor religious freedom.
8. The Quran is a book which causes women to suffer and be tortured by means of its being full of injustice and macho laws.
9. The Quran is a book which rather than teaching unity, teaches disunity and in this way it doesn’t allow its believers to form friendships with those who are not Muslims, because in the eyes of Quran they are infidels.
10. The Quran is a major threat to the free society of Spain. A book which clearly preach the messages of Jihad, killing, hate, discrimination and revenge. For that reason it can’t be compatible with the Spanish system in any sense. It is a book totally contrary to what the law and constitution of Spain say and it incites hatred and violence in our country.

Visitas: 1208

Respuestas a esta discusión

Thanks for this Alan

I probably read it the first time around but ignored it.  There is so much lazy, one-size-fits-all analysis of religion and belief systems that it is very tiresome.  People see some similarities (e.g. a belief in God/god) and refuse to see the differences.  Nuances and differences are to be avoided because it makes for easier thinking or it fits easier into a political  agenda or even the belief system of the individual.  'The Bible and the Koran' are not looked at in the same way by people who uphold those two sources as sacred to their beliefs, so how outsiders can understand those sources without applying the same filters seems to me like poor scholarship.

Alan Lake said:

Ha, ha, I missed this last time around:

Responder para John Carlson el junio 2, 2012 a las 1:04pm
I've read both the Bible and the Koran very carefully, and there is no doubt that the Bible is at least as bad as the Koran. In my opinion, it's far worse. So it's really hypocritical to try to ban one, and not the other. Personally, I don't think either one should be banned because doing so would grossly violate the right of Freedom of Speech.

There's so much wrong with that small paragraph, Its hard to know where to begin. But the best start is just to say "Well you start your own petition then!".  Oh but he can't, because of this magical "free speech" argument, which is given without any regard to the whole context of the petition and the democratic framework, which itself references Free Speech.

Is it hypocritical to give money to starving Africans, when there are also starving Indonesians?  
Is it even hypocritical to give money to starving Indonesians when there are Africans starving even worse?

"I've read both the Bible and the Koran very carefully..." - we'd better bow to your expert knowledge then?

In 4 lines he manages to break so many good behaviour guidelines and mischievously tries to waste so much of our time, I can't believe we let him stay here so long.

Yo Dave

In all fairness, it was not John Carlson who is digging up facts about Imran Firsat, but me. The moment I read this article, I did not feel easy, His wife claims to be Buddhist, and her parents and brothers where murdered in Indonesia, so I find it extremely unlikely a young  Indonesian Buddhist of Chinese descent  fleeing to Pakistan, it doesn't make sense, and then to go back, especially Tangerang where a lot of murder and rapes happened in 1998 after the overthrow of General Suharto,

 The Germans Did not believe their story and sent then to Indonesia, The deportation of failed ultimately because of the Federal Border forgot the necessary papers. Back in Frankfurt, the pressure continues associations so they get a document that allows them to reside temporarily in preparation for their deportation. Following the advice of an African met in the detention center at the airport they decide to leave Germany for Spain, because he says the law is more permissive in Spain than in other countries. Despite that there was a powerful petition backing him in Germany,


 So when they arrive in Spain their asylum claim is rejected at the first stage as they could be expected. The Dublin agreement signed by all European countries of the Schengen states that a person may not make an asylum claim in one of European countries and the countries jurisdiction to consider his application for asylum is the country of his foot in first, so in the case of this couple in Germany. 

 What basically started as a Romeo Juliet tear breaker, changed when it became obvious to them In Spanish law it is expected that one can file a second time a claim if the elements of persecution have changed. And for this couple is the case: most of the articles published since their arrival in Europe and denunciation of the persecution they suffered in their country makes their eventual return to Pakistan dangerous. But if they start talking about their religion returns will be even more perilous . Imran's speech will then pass the defense of the welfare of his family in a straightforward accusation of Islam is the head of all evil. In interviews he does on local television because it his personal enemy of the Prophet, accusing him of having been able to take as many woman he wanted, while he can not even marry the woman he loves. He says this is not the fault of those who govern, it is the fault of Islam.

 Now Why Did he go to Indonesia ?

I still do not see him making any attempt for him to bring his wife out of Indonesia, that is if she wishes to be with him. He may claim to be an ex-muslim,but he still behaves like a muslim.

No Dave I do not follow blindly what I read on the bigger blogs. Yes even Faithfreedom contains a lot of porkies, where there is quite a bit about this guy.


As usual, Shiva digs out the truth behind the case.  Like Danny Jeffrey says, you should have been a private investigator!

Yes, that must be the explanation for his Petition against the Quran.  Still, no reason for us not to be opportunistic :-)


Firasat argued that the expression of his views about Islam fall within the constitutional rights of free speech.

I don't really care if this man is insane or what (Shiva used to think there was something decidedly dodgy about him).

That the judges in Spain could make it illegal to criticise islam, and deport someone who was already given asylum on the basis that the follower of islam wanted to kill him.

Imagine: it's 1939, and a jew flees Nazi persecution to London. Once there, he starts to call for the banning of the British Union of Fascists, and saying that Mein Kampf is a seriously dangerous book (now banned in the Netherlands).

This jew then gets told he's being deported, because Nazis might take his criticism as hostile.

What disgustingly craven politicians, judges, journalists and academics.

Now the Supreme Court has not only confirmed the National Court's ruling, but it has gone one step farther. Its ruling states:

"The right to the freedom of expression does not guarantee the right to intolerant manifestations or expressions that infringe against religious freedom, that have the character of blasphemy or that seek to offend religious convictions and do not contribute to the public debate."

This paragraph is strangely similar to an international blasphemy law being promoted by the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, a bloc of 57 Muslim countries dedicated to implementing a worldwide ban on "negative stereotyping of Islam."

So now Spanish judges are not only going to have to judge what is 'offensive' and what is a 'religion', but even more reliably, what does not "not contribute to the public debate".  You couldn't make this stuff up. How far is that from, was it Oscar Wildes observation, that Free Speech is precisely for that speech that offends.  Now it must not only be non-offensive, it must be 'productive' as well.  

We have an entire generation of Europeans that have not only lost their spine and become cowards, they've lost the distinction between subjective and objective in jurisprudence.

Joe dijo:

I don't really care if this man is insane or what (Shiva used to think there was something decidedly dodgy about him).

I still do

It is amazing how they are still using the old picture of Firasat and his family

Here is are a few images from a TV channels site

Left is a Triana, Firasats misress, who was arrest 16 july, nine days after Firasat fled Indonesia, she was sentenced to 9yrs for the murder of Victor Rizky Wibowo

Right is his wife Linna Serachman (Jenny Setiawan, she was sentenced to 20 months for passport forgery 

What is remarkable here is is in indonesia she is called Linna Serachman. It has only just dawned on me that Serachman is an Islamic name

Se is a prefix meaning one, first Rachman is an indonesian derivative of Rahman

Also it is interesting about the document forgery.

Here is a news article from 2008

They took flight leaving a trail of victims and debts behind. Imran Firasat and Jenny Setiawan, political refugees in Cantabria who need to answer before a court in relation to the case filed by their business partners from Santander, have abandoned the flat they were living in and also the city. And the lawyer for the accusers has now asked the judge for a search and capture order covering all the national territory. For the many Cantabrians who threw themselves into helping them because of their hard personal history, the Pakistani and the Indonesian must have been a great disappointment.

Firasat and Setiawan succeeded in gaining temporary authorisation to reside in Cantabria in view of their exceptional circumstances: marriage between a Muslim and a Buddhist is punished by both religions, which prevented them from returning to either of their countries of origin. Having arrived in this region from Germany, Firasat moved like a fish in water between institutions and communication media. He even organised an internet campaign to support his cause. 

Having achieved their goal of regularising their stateless situation, the pair opened a catering business in the Grupo Amaro in Santander, called 'Kebabish'. Under this name they formed a company with two Cantabrian couples who quarrelled with them in relation to business-related crimes approximately one month ago: after opening three premises (the Grupo Amaro one, another in Menéndez Pelayo and a third in Marqués de la Hermida), the young man and his wife sold them without the knowledge of their business partners. <b>This gave rise to the complaint for document falsification and administrative fraud.</b> 

One of the accusers had also rented a home to them. Because they stopped paying the rent a few months ago, an eviction process has been started. 

These were not the only “irregularities” committed by the political refugees. Maite Calderón, owner of a signage company, has also filed a complaint with the police after observing that the Pakistani had given her a cheque without any funds for an amount just below 600 euros. The businesswoman says it is not the money that bothers her (“I don’t expect to get it back”) but the “tremendous disappointment”. “The personal deception hurts me. When he gave me the cheque dated February, he was already preparing his flight”.

Calderón – who had no previous knowledge of the history of the immigrants through the media – is aware that the young man “had a wide circle of people who were supporting him. He offered to make all of them partners in his business. Now it’s clear his only aim was to rip them off”. 

She doesn’t think it will be easy to find him. “It would be a stroke of luck”, she notes. A fortune for all those who have been left unpaid, she indicates, “because there were also people, like bar suppliers, that he has left owing”.

The family that support him in his business projects have it worst. A few days ago they learned that they will have to pay the bank the amount they guaranteed for him and they are very upset.

And the local government also have knowledge of the couple, who got a grant to start their business which these sources put at almost 5,000 euros with specific conditions that, if not fulfilled, would mean it had to be returned. 

For this reason an investigation has been opened, as has been confirmed by the ex-partners of the Pakistani and the first to accuse him in the situation, who are moving heaven and earth to find him.

These persons add that, among the victims, is a former employee and the compatriot to whom he sold the premises in Menéndez Pelayo. It seems the man who convinced so many people of his painful family situation will have to give many explanations. But for that, he first has to stick his neck out.

One other thing worth noting 

International Business Times [IBT], Firasat said "Seven years ago I was granted refugee status in Spain for the reason that I used to criticize Islam

He has made this claim on many CJM sites Yet when we look at the Spanish news article above we find

 Firasat and Setiawan succeeded in gaining temporary authorisation to reside in Cantabria in view of their exceptional circumstances: marriage between a Muslim and a Buddhist

Here is another image from the TV site, this time it is of the victim Victor Rizky Wibowo

Oh BTW all the best to every one 

Thanks for digging stuff up again Shiva!

I think we have to compartmentalise our minds.  Firasat is clearly a conman (and a pretty successful one at that).

On the other hand, as part of his M.O., he chose to exploit the vulnerabilities and contradictions in our legal systems and cultural mindset, in order to gain residence in the West, and gain protection and special privileges from the state.

In that respect, we can treat him like a very useful test case.  Its because of the fact that he was specifically targeting our flaws, and because he actually went thru the claims processes (instead of just writing about them as theoretical states, in a blog), that his test case is so useful.  It gets us exactly what we want, what we assert, not as a theoretical possibility, but as an actual fact, enacted and recorded in legal precedent.

So Firasat has proved for us that in Spain:

  • Pleas on the basis of fictitious claims of discrimination  can be used to gain superior privileges and exemptions, rights which would not be granted to you and me.  That is blatant discrimination against you and me.
  • Facing pressure from the thugs of Islam, the West is starting to recognise and enforce the Sharia Law on blasphemy.


Page Monitor

Just fill in the box below on any 4F page to be notified when it changes.

Privacy & Unsubscribe respected

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

© 2023   Created by Netcon.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service