The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

The homepage contains the basic 12-point list.  This forum elaborates all the points.
We have business cards with the 12PP and the 4F mission statement which you may like to use as an aide memoir.  The card images are attached to this forum so feel free to print off your own copies if you like.
The 12 points fall into 4 categories: Sedition, Crime, Family and Finance.

 

Sedition
1. Stop Abuse of the Armed Forces and Reinstate the Military Covenant
2. Stop Recognising No-Go Zones for Police & Fire Service
The Police and Fire Service should be able to enter any area of the country without fear of attack. Islamic enclaves should not be exempt (and should not even be recognised). (Note: this point is particularly true in France where there are now 750 government recognised no-go areas).
The Police and Fire Service should be able to enter any building in the country without any differences in the authorisation process or extra delays being enforced, or denial made to any of their equipment (including guard and sniffer dogs). Mosques should not be exempt.

3. Stop Discriminatory Citizen Exclusion from Public Areas
For example, Muslims seek to exclude other citizens from public streets (without authorisation), and from public swimming pools and shared prayer rooms.  No other religion makes this intolerant, divisive and insulting demand. We consider that no public organisation should be required to provide a separate prayer room just for Muslim use.

4. Stop Seditious Acts from within Government Institutions
Lord Achmed threatened the House of Lords with a violent mob of 10,000 Muslim men, and succeeded in forcing it to change its plans.  For this gangster style political intimidation, he should have been removed from the House.  
Anil Patani wasted a large amount of public money in an attempt to stop free speech and information provision by Channel 4.  He should have been fired from the police.
Shahid Malik preached for a Muslim ruled parliament and a Muslim Prime Minister for the UK. His actions form an assault on democracy, for which he should have been reprimanded by his party.

 

Crime
5. Stop Hate Crimes against Jews, Gays and Apostates
http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/EDL/forum/topics/antisemitism-is-ma...

6. Monitor and Stop Hate Speech in all Religious Assemblies or Books
Currently the government seems to think it is the job of the media to police centres of hate speech like the Finsbury Park mosque or the Regents Park mosque.  They are wrong, it is the governments job.  The media (particularly Channel 4) expose these illegal activites (via programs like "Undercover Mosque") as a public benefit, but it is up to the government to enforce the law; the broadcasting companies have neither the authority nor the resources for that.

7. Stop Face Covering in Public

 

Family
8. Stop Abuse of Women via Bigamy, Forced Marriage, Grooming and Under Age FGM
Bigamy should be made legal for everyone, or illegal for everyone. Muslims should not receive special treatment.
Forced marriage should be stopped, whether the woman is a minor or not. Many people ask that Honour Killings are added to the above list of crimes that the Police and Social Services are too scared to deal with.  But I think that Honour Killings are now on society's radar and with sufficient prodding, will continue to be pursued, so it is not a black-and-white issue of discrimination in favour of Islam.
We want to see the law equally applied to protect minors against abuse by their parents, by FGM for example.
Grooming of young girls is a growing problem in the North of England.

Community
9. Stop Immigration without Consultation
The implementation of a policy of mass immigration by the governments of Europe, is a violation of the democratic rights of the their people and a violation of the UN Charter on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.  This mass immigration policy was also a form of electoral fraud perpetrated by the Socialist parties as a way of significantly increasing their share of the vote.  The government should consult with the people to determine what level of immigration is desired and beneficial for the country, without causing the suppression of the indigenous culture, lifestyle and beliefs.
Surveys have shown that 70% of the population want immigration cut by over 80%, as summarised here:

Finance
10. Stop Foreign Funding of Political Headquarters
The money trail behind the construction of all new religious buildings should be investigated.  Mosques are political centres.  It should not be allowed for foreign organisations to fund the construction of political centres in the UK, especially centres whose core texts advocate the end of our constitutional freedoms and democracy.

11. Stop Government Subsidy of Communities Implicated in Terrorism
Islamic communities have received £140m from the government because they bred the UK bombers. This is discrimination around carrot and stick. They give rewards only to the Islamic groups, but the do not give punishments only to them. Conversely, they do not give any rewards to non-Muslims for good beharviour or to help our communities with problems like child grooming, etc.

12. Stop Government Funding of Sectarian Diets in Public Services
Why should we all have to eat Halal Meat? In schools, hospitals even prisons. The government is not only forcing us into a socially divisive and politically motivated type of food, but is also making us pay for it. What about Sikhs for whom Halal meat is forbidden – don’t they have any rights? Would it help if they were to blow some people up and decapitate some others?  Prisoners especially, after committing crimes against society, should not have their ideological dictates pandered to.  And since there are 5 times more Muslims in prison then non-Muslims (proportional to their percentage of the population), making their lives comfortable there is not encouraging them to stop committing crimes.
http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/animallovers/forum/topics/daily-mai...

Tags: 12-Point, Civil, Equal, Plan, Rights, The, for

Views: 458

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Replies to This Discussion

A plan is just that: a plan.  It is not a complete guide and proposal for every foreseeable eventuality.  So this is a great tool and discussion starter and an excellent base-line for possible agreement among counter-jihad people.  I would eventually like to add or strengthen two points.  I would support stopping all Muslim immigration and stopping the building of new Mosques.

I elaborate on these points here:

http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/EDL/forum/topics/edl-stance-on-immi...

 

And here:

http://4freedoms.ning.com/profiles/blogs/no-new-mosques

I also recommend this essay by Leonard James:

http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=ar...

 

 

Thanks for your input John and Kinana.  You are right, so I've changed points 8 and 9.  Is that better?

Alan,

The new plan looks good. I've noticed that Tommy Robinson is now openly advocating a halt to Muslim immigration, and I think it's an excellent talking point. We simply can't let the other side go on pretending that massive Muslim immigration is the default state of affairs, and questioning it is xenophobia. It must be questioned, loudly and frequently. It's the best way to get to the root of the problem.

Good, thanks.  I'm now feeling that the 12PP is pretty much done so we can now proceed to distributing it at demos and meetings with political leaders and the media.  Then we'll finally have some concrete policy and solutions on the table.  It also means I have one fewer onerous tasks to complete :-))

This is a criticism from Sei-Kyokai-no-Chi here:

http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2011/08/14/britons-attend-and-hush-...

 

Your group’s “12 Point Plan” is interesting.

To roll back the intrusion of religion into the secular state, we suggest the 12 Point Plan.

1. Stop abuse of armed forces and reinstate the Military Covenant
2. Stop Police and Fire service exclusion from privileged districts and buildings
3. Stop discriminatory citizen exclusion from public areas
4. Stop seditious statements by members of government institutions
5. Stop hate crimes against Jews, gays and apostates
6. Stop and monitor hate speech in all religious assemblies and publications
7. Stop face covering in public
8. Stop abuse of women via bigamy, forced marriage, grooming and under age FGM
9. Stop immigration without consultation
10. Stop foreign funding of political headquarters
11. Stop government subsidy of communities implicated in terrorism
12. Stop government funding of sectarian diets in public services

Point 5 is especially interesting.

“Stop hate crimes against Jews, gays and apostates”

Why are Jews mentioned there? I don’t see any concern for “Hate Crimes against Christians” there.

If you “stop and monitor hate speech in all religious assemblies and publications,” I think it’s important to define “hate speech”, and explain who will decide such things, and how will it be stopped?

What’s a “hate crime against gays”? You mean queers? You mean if somebody beats a queer just because they’re queer? But surely there are already laws against assault and battery in the UK?

How about quoting the Bible — the parts about Satanic Jews converting others to also follow Satan — or other religious texts, such as Kebra Negast, in which it is stated the Jews will be condemned to hell? Is that hate speech you must stop?

How about the Talmud? Are you monitoring synagogues, yeshivas and other places where the Jew-Supremacists meet?

“Stop foreign funding of political headquarters” — does that include all the Jews funding British politicians?

“Stop government subsidy of communities implicated in terrorism” — Does that include Jews?

  • “Stop hate crimes against Jews, gays and apostates”.  Why are Jews mentioned there? I don’t see any concern for “Hate Crimes against Christians” there.

Once again Sei-Kyokai-no-Chi speaks from his position of spoilt privilege and safety (ignoring for the time being his latent Jew-o-phobia).   Perhaps if I could take him for a walk in Tower Hamlets, while wearing a gay pride badge or even a Jewish skull cap, he may begin to understand - if he's not disabled and brain damaged by the end of it, that is.

So I will connect the dots for the naive tourist.  Yes, Christian vicars do get pushed around a bit in the Muslim enclaves, but its not so bad yet, partly because they are already submissive and 'dhimmified'.  Mostly they just get their churches vandalised.  But anyone who walks with a visible symbol of being gay, Jewish or a known apostate, will be under serious risk of violence.  The gay community has been ethnically cleansed from Tower Hamlets over the past 10 years, together with its bars and clubs.  The Jewish population has also left.  Apostates that haven't left, live under daily threat and attack with their wives and children.

Then there is the question of policing.  The police are loath to follow up on attacks by Muslims against Jews, gays and apostates because it enmeshes them in the special protection that Muslims plead on 'race' grounds.  And yes, I'd better explain another oddity: the Muslim 'race' card trumps the 'gay' card, apparently.

So there is no mention of crimes against Christians, nor against Albanian au-pairs - do you think perhaps its something to do with statistics?

 

  • If you “stop and monitor hate speech in all religious assemblies and publications,” I think it’s important to define “hate speech”, and explain who will decide such things, and how will it be stopped? 

I don't have to define any of these because the UK legislature has already done that for me.  He is really showing how little he knows of the UK, right now.  As I've said before, I disagree with the definition of hate speech as being what anyone finds personally and subjectively to be offensive - but whatever it is, it can be implemented uniformly, and should be.

 

  • What’s a “hate crime against gays”? You mean queers? You mean if somebody beats a queer just because they’re queer? 

What's this?  Anti-gay as well as anti-Jew?  No wonder he's living in Japan.  Anyway, I'm just using the statistically most common word to describe that class of object (a homosexual person), so as to communicate more easily with the widest audience.  Anything wrong with that? 

 

  • But surely there are already laws against assault and battery in the UK?

Oddly enough I agree with him here: there was never any need for new 'hate crime' laws because our existing laws covered all those crimes, and never discriminated from the beginning anyway.

 

  • How about quoting the Bible — the parts about Satanic Jews converting others to also follow Satan — or other religious texts, such as Kebra Negast, in which it is stated the Jews will be condemned to hell? Is that hate speech you must stop?  How about the Talmud? Are you monitoring synagogues, yeshivas and other places where the Jew-Supremacists meet?

There we go with the Jew-o-phobia again :-)  Anyway, I'd like to see these checks and monitoring applied to all religious books and meeting places.  Actually, in my case, its not just a case of ideological correctness.  After many decades of hard IT work, I actually find it very satisfying to see a control applied to something where its never activated.  It gives a nice feeling of consistency and correctness.  It wouldn't surprise me if the Islamic monitoring raised an alert every week but the Buddhist monitoring went for years without a single red marker.  But that's a bit like not getting any alerts on one of  your firewalls - its nice to know that that part of the system is running smoothly.

 

  • “Stop foreign funding of political headquarters” — does that include all the Jews funding British politicians?

A person is not a building.  This point is talking about foreign funding for the construction of political headquarters and command and control centres - whether they are called religious centres or not.

 

  • “Stop government subsidy of communities implicated in terrorism” — Does that include Jews?

As with the previous comments against the 4F Mission Statement, my patience is wearing thin by the end of considering these comments.

The obvious and rank Jew hatred, based on some kind of psychological complex, has now gone from slightly comic to deeply offensive.

So, if you can pay attention for just a few seconds:

 * We are taking about terrorism in the UK.  This is not a world wide discussion where we somehow try to equivalence the actions of state actors like Israel with the criminal actions of lone individuals and groups.  BTW, I use a morally neutral vocabulary for these terms, so the actions of the North Korean government in shelling South Korea and sinking its ships are not terrorist acts, no matter how crazy they may seem, as they are the actions of a recognised government, a state actor.

 * I am not aware of any terrorist activity in the UK by Jews.  However I am aware that over 2000 Islamic terror cells are being tracked by MI5, and there are over 200 individuals of serious concern and risk.

 * But yes, the controls applied, as I've said a thousand times it seems, will apply to everyone.

Reply by 正教会の智 (on his blog)

“I’d like to see these checks and monitoring applied to all religious books and meeting places.”

Of course you would. That’s your kikey definition of “freedom”. You don’t address the hate for all non-Jews expressed in the filthy Talmud though.

“There we go with the Jew-o-phobia again :-)” … “The obvious and rank Jew hatred, based on some kind of psychological complex, has now gone from slightly comic to deeply offensive.”

Big on Jew Voodoo of course. Offensive to whom? To what? Go fuck yourself!

“The gay community has been ethnically cleansed from Tower Hamlets over the past 10 years, together with its bars and clubs. “

What do expect when the queer and masonic and kike-run media, schools, courts and legislatures constantly promote ass-faggotry and the corruption of minors, while also importing millions of Muz, with their queer-ass cult of rape and pillage?

And being such a moron, you can’t see o refuse to see that queerness has steadily increased as immigration has, so wheres the “ethnic cleansing” of queers? How come British media is crawling with queers?

And since when is “the gay community” an ethnic group? Of course ass-faggotry has become more so-called “ethnic” over the past couple of decades, as so many Muz have been imported, since so many of your Arab Muz and your Turks and your Somalis love the sight of shit on their dicks and are into nubile boy-toys. They’re just more on the down-low and less open about it than your “gay community” is. Any pretty boys — especially White pretty boys — going into any of those ethnic enclaves should get the same advice and warnings that their friends would give them if they were going to jail.

Didn’t you know that the kikes invented and promote the concept of “Islamophobia” to describe people like you?

“I am not aware of any terrorist activity in the UK by Jews”

That’s because you’re a moron. What about all the kikes who push the UK into wars, and who bribe British politicians to support the parasitic Jew Terror-State in Palestine? What about all the kikes who import all the Muz terrorists? What about the kikes in the UK who support Muz terrorists in Russia, Turkey, Serbia, etc? What about the IRA terror funded and supplied by the Kike Khaddafi?

+ + +

Here’s a real puzzler for you, genius: How the fuck did Britain and Holland and Denmark and Norway and Sweden and Belgium and so on end up populated with millions and millions of Muz?

Its posts like this that make you realise the value of Hate Speech laws in this country.  

In this post, he's gone from crazy racist to mentally deranged, and of course, does not address any of the points I made in a coherent way, but falls back on his knee jerk response of insult and further assertion of phobias and prejudices.  Perhaps he's too busy masturbating over the keyboard at the mention of the trigger word "Jew" to think of any arguments? Anyway, I'll just make a couple of points that may be of benefit to the community.

 

  • “I’d like to see these checks and monitoring applied to all religious books and meeting places.”  Of course you would. That’s your kikey definition of “freedom”. You don’t address the hate for all non-Jews expressed in the filthy Talmud though.

I've joked several times that the process I promote will probably see a "marriage made in hell" between the Muslims, Christians and Jews to get it stopped, because it will anger all of them, (although in different measure).

I don't talk about the Talmud, but I note that he doesn't talk about the Gobind Geet of Sikhism, nor about the Tripithaka of Buddhism, nor about the Baghavad Gita of Hinduism.  Since he's such a 'genius'  I'm sure he's read them, but his Jew obsession just blanketed the thoughts out.

 

  • “I am not aware of any terrorist activity in the UK by Jews”.  That’s because you’re a moron. What about all the kikes who push the UK into wars, and who bribe British politicians to support the parasitic Jew Terror-State in Palestine? What about all the kikes who import all the Muz terrorists? What about the kikes in the UK who support Muz terrorists in Russia, Turkey, Serbia, etc? What about the IRA terror funded and supplied by the Kike Khaddafi?

I asked for attention for a few seconds, but clearly my expectations were too high - he's got an attention span sufficient to make a goldfish blush with pride.  I'll give my full response again first:

 

"So, if you can pay attention for just a few seconds:

 * We are taking about terrorism in the UK.  This is not a world wide discussion where we somehow try to equivalence the actions of state actors like Israel with the criminal actions of lone individuals and groups.  BTW, I use a morally neutral vocabulary for these terms, so the actions of the North Korean government in shelling South Korea and sinking its ships are not terrorist acts, no matter how crazy they may seem, as they are the actions of a recognised government, a state actor.

 * I am not aware of any terrorist activity in the UK by Jews.  However I am aware that over 2000 Islamic terror cells are being tracked by MI5, and there are over 200 individuals of serious concern and risk.

 * But yes, the controls applied, as I've said a thousand times it seems, will apply to everyone."

 

Leaving aside for the minute that not a single bit of evidence or a link is given to support the Sei-Kyokai-no-Chi's many wild claims, I define and use the expression 'terrorist acts' as follows:

  • The acts referred to are criminal acts of bombing, shooting and hijacking etc, not 'terror supporting acts' of propagandising or financing
  • If those acts are performed by a state, they are not terrorist acts but (if performed against another country) acts of war
  • If those acts are performed by a non state actor, for private reasons, they are merely criminal
  • If they are performed by a non state actor for political reasons, they are terrorist acts

As I said, its important to take the moral judgements out of the vocabulary, so the terms operate in a mechanical way, and we an all agree on their meaning and usage.  THEN, we can start to discuss the morality.  If we let the morality get enmeshed in the actual vocabulary, we'll just end up going round in circles, obviously.

You also end up going round in circles if you allow moral equivalencing.  I did precaution against this, but 'Mr. Genius' was probably too busy slobbering and drawing swastikas on his walls to pay attention.  If you start moral equivalencing the suppression of terrorist who do the suicide bombings and rocket launchings against Israel, with suicide bombings in the UK, then in the end you can excuse any action you like.

 

On a final comic note: Sei-Kyokai-no-Chi's name means something like:

"the intellect of the right thinking church"  

 

Hmm, talk about setting yourself up to fail.  As names go, it reminds me of the joke about the Englishman lost in Ireland who winds down the window of his car to ask a local farmer the way to Lurgan.  The farmer scratches his head then replies (in the broadest possible Irish brogue):

"Well now, you'd best not be starting from here!"

 

 

 

 

 

On the point of the Military Covenant i think we should build closer links with the Military via Veterans groups like the British Legion. The EDL are great but i think when they gather they should maybe better dressed and say have a suited group or Legion amongst them. It would also be better if we can get more Sikhs, Hindus and Black Christians involved to go on the marches.

 

 

 



Alan Lake said:

Its posts like this that make you realise the value of Hate Speech laws in this country.  

In this post, he's gone from crazy racist to mentally deranged, and of course, does not address any of the points I made in a coherent way, but falls back on his knee jerk response of insult and further assertion of phobias and prejudices.  Perhaps he's too busy masturbating over the keyboard at the mention of the trigger word "Jew" to think of any arguments? Anyway, I'll just make a couple of points that may be of benefit to the community.

 

  • “I’d like to see these checks and monitoring applied to all religious books and meeting places.”  Of course you would. That’s your kikey definition of “freedom”. You don’t address the hate for all non-Jews expressed in the filthy Talmud though.

I've joked several times that the process I promote will probably see a "marriage made in hell" between the Muslims, Christians and Jews to get it stopped, because it will anger all of them, (although in different measure).

I don't talk about the Talmud, but I note that he doesn't talk about the Gobind Geet of Sikhism, nor about the Tripithaka of Buddhism, nor about the Baghavad Gita of Hinduism.  Since he's such a 'genius'  I'm sure he's read them, but his Jew obsession just blanketed the thoughts out.

 

  • “I am not aware of any terrorist activity in the UK by Jews”.  That’s because you’re a moron. What about all the kikes who push the UK into wars, and who bribe British politicians to support the parasitic Jew Terror-State in Palestine? What about all the kikes who import all the Muz terrorists? What about the kikes in the UK who support Muz terrorists in Russia, Turkey, Serbia, etc? What about the IRA terror funded and supplied by the Kike Khaddafi?

I asked for attention for a few seconds, but clearly my expectations were too high - he's got an attention span sufficient to make a goldfish blush with pride.  I'll give my full response again first:

 

"So, if you can pay attention for just a few seconds:

 * We are taking about terrorism in the UK.  This is not a world wide discussion where we somehow try to equivalence the actions of state actors like Israel with the criminal actions of lone individuals and groups.  BTW, I use a morally neutral vocabulary for these terms, so the actions of the North Korean government in shelling South Korea and sinking its ships are not terrorist acts, no matter how crazy they may seem, as they are the actions of a recognised government, a state actor.

 * I am not aware of any terrorist activity in the UK by Jews.  However I am aware that over 2000 Islamic terror cells are being tracked by MI5, and there are over 200 individuals of serious concern and risk.

 * But yes, the controls applied, as I've said a thousand times it seems, will apply to everyone."

 

Leaving aside for the minute that not a single bit of evidence or a link is given to support the Sei-Kyokai-no-Chi's many wild claims, I define and use the expression 'terrorist acts' as follows:

  • The acts referred to are criminal acts of bombing, shooting and hijacking etc, not 'terror supporting acts' of propagandising or financing
  • If those acts are performed by a state, they are not terrorist acts but (if performed against another country) acts of war
  • If those acts are performed by a non state actor, for private reasons, they are merely criminal
  • If they are performed by a non state actor for political reasons, they are terrorist acts

As I said, its important to take the moral judgements out of the vocabulary, so the terms operate in a mechanical way, and we an all agree on their meaning and usage.  THEN, we can start to discuss the morality.  If we let the morality get enmeshed in the actual vocabulary, we'll just end up going round in circles, obviously.

You also end up going round in circles if you allow moral equivalencing.  I did precaution against this, but 'Mr. Genius' was probably too busy slobbering and drawing swastikas on his walls to pay attention.  If you start moral equivalencing the suppression of terrorist who do the suicide bombings and rocket launchings against Israel, with suicide bombings in the UK, then in the end you can excuse any action you like.

 

On a final comic note: Sei-Kyokai-no-Chi's name means something like:

"the intellect of the right thinking church"  

 

Hmm, talk about setting yourself up to fail.  As names go, it reminds me of the joke about the Englishman lost in Ireland who winds down the window of his car to ask a local farmer the way to Lurgan.  The farmer scratches his head then replies (in the broadest possible Irish brogue):

"Well now, you'd best not be starting from here!"

Yes, those are all good ideas, the difficulty is in implementing them. In terms of EDL policy as well, that advice needs to go direct to them via their discussion forums, i think.

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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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