The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Tags: Al, Jazeera, Mohammed, Robinson, Tommy, about, cuts, facts, he, tells, More…the, when

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Replies to This Discussion

Comment by Paul Collings

Didn't TR do well on Al Jizya?

The fool in Doha can say what he likes, the people in the non muslim world know the Muslim world goes into melt down when their idol is spoken about in less than loving words. 

In fact the one thing the Muslims from Islamic countries fear more than seeing a women in a short skirt, is hearing the pedo mohammad being mentioned  by a kaffir who does start screaming PBUH! or some other fruit cake cultist reciting every time  Mo's name is said aloud . Followed by half a dozen Allahu Akbars!

The Muslims constant recitals get in the way of  having any sane conversation.

Hows the weather, good today, Allahu akbar, My wife is pregnant, allahu akbar! If its a girl i'll say she was raped and get her stoned to death, AllahU Akbar, may the Prophet Muhammad PBHU be my guide, Bloody hell it just goes on and on.

The people of Islam, The people who are happy to honour kill, behead almost anyone for no good reason, cut their girls privates to pieces are so sensitive, their Tv's have to be blanked out at the slightest hint Their Prophet Muhammd PBHU!!!, Shit look even I've started!, may get a less than benevolent mention.

I would say, I wonder what they think is happening every time their Tv's go blank, but i suppose they just fill in the blanks with a few Allahu Akbars  because its such a versatile phrase and fun to say, I should think the whole of Islam is just waiting for the next opportunity to scream it Out. 

Anyway. well done Tommy.

Comment by Philip Smeeton

Tommy Robinson really impressed me on that Al Jazeera interview. He is going to be on a lot of kill-on-sight lists. But I do not expect him to be offered any protection. He is simply telling the truth and has learned a few of the tricks they use. No matter how hard they try, the Bible is mild compared to the Koran and well Jesus and Mohammed having nothing in common.

On the bright side the burka has been banned completely in Switzerland and Donald Trump is doing well in the primaries.

Comment by Danny Jeffrey

The Bible is mild compared to the Koran,,,

While it is quite true that Jesus and Mohammed had nothing in common, this cannot be said about Moses and Mohammed. The fact of the matter is that Mohammed styled his own religion after the methods of Moses. Yes! Moses was cruel warlord, a mass murderer, a rapist, and a supporter of pedophilia. Read Numbers 31 and his instructions about the 'women children',

http://biblehub.com/kjv/numbers/31.htm

Yes Danny, so Christians have phrases about Jesus for this.  Can't quite remember them exactly now, but the idea is that Jesus came to rewrite the law (and fix the bad bits).  So the distinction between Christians and Jews is very fundamental. As far as Christians are concerned, Jews are still operating with the broken law.  (And as far as Jews are concerned, Christians are operating from a false prophet).

But this makes me realise something about our modern, consensual, civil societies.  If you ask someone to give you the most fundamental principles of the West, they would say things like:

  • free speech
  • democratic election
  • equal treatment before the law
  • separation of Church and State / secular law

But you could say there is an even more fundamental principle underlying these four!  That would be the principle of non-discrimination between citizens, so that they are all treated equally, which is called the Golden Rule.  Thus:

  • everyone is allowed to say what they like, not just the king and his barons
  • everyone is allowed to put themselves forward for election, not just, say, the members of the Communist Party
  • everyone is treated equally before the law, so there is no Apartheid division, whether it is through white supremacy, black supremacy, or thru Islamic dhimmitude
  • no religious power group is allowed to impose its customs on the rest of the population, the customs of the society are decided by all citizens of the society. So there is no Sharia Law subjugating the kuffar, for example.

Now, back to TR's interview.  The interviewer could have been mocked for his stupidity, by asking for example, if he would like an explanation of how doors should be opened in society (by turning the handle then pulling or pushing it).  If he is expecting TR to overturn the most fundamental principle of our societies, then really, we have no idea what anyone is talking about in the discussion anymore, until we've taken a lengthy deposition about their actual beliefs.  In other words, of course neither Tommy nor any of us are saying that the law should be applied unequally (like supremacist, fascistic Sharia Law does).  Examination and remedy of hate speech should be applied to every ideological text, whether Christian or Muslim.

This tactic was a particularly dirty one, since it is precisely our Golden Rule, which the supremacists of Islamism use against us.  They haven't the slightest embarrassment about discriminating between halal Muslim and haram kuffar, yet they will brazenly take every opportunity to castigate us if we show the slightest discrimination between the two groups they so clearly codify, as long as it is to their advantage.  It's a classic have-it-both-ways position.

Having said all that, it was very nice the way Tommy side-stepped that whole argument and took the discussion where he wanted it to be :-)

This is why there are people falling for the appeal of alt-right.

This group say that where Europe went wrong was with the Enlightenment and the idea of universalism (e.g. that men and women are equal, that the aristocrat and the peasant are equal, that the white man and the black man are  equal). These people on the alt-right want to throw out this principle of non-discrimination/equality. They see the way to stop the collapse of the West is to throw out the Enlightenment.  A few of those who identify as alt-right do admit they want to keep their iPhones, and can't quite work out how to square this with rejecting the Enlightenment and returning to Medievalism.

Alan Lake said:

This tactic was a particularly dirty one, since it is precisely our Golden Rule, which the supremacists of Islamism use against us.  They haven't the slightest embarrassment about discriminating between halal Muslim and haram kuffar, yet they will brazenly take every opportunity to castigate us if we show the slightest discrimination between the two groups they so clearly codify, as long as it is to their advantage.  It's a classic have-it-both-ways position.



Joe said:

This is why there are people falling for the appeal of alt-right.

This group say that where Europe went wrong was with the Enlightenment and the idea of universalism (e.g. that men and women are equal, that the aristocrat and the peasant are equal, that the white man and the black man are  equal). These people on the alt-right want to throw out this principle of non-discrimination/equality. They see the way to stop the collapse of the West is to throw out the Enlightenment.  A few of those who identify as alt-right do admit they want to keep their iPhones, and can't quite work out how to square this with rejecting the Enlightenment and returning to Medievalism.

Alan Lake said:

This tactic was a particularly dirty one, since it is precisely our Golden Rule, which the supremacists of Islamism use against us.  They haven't the slightest embarrassment about discriminating between halal Muslim and haram kuffar, yet they will brazenly take every opportunity to castigate us if we show the slightest discrimination between the two groups they so clearly codify, as long as it is to their advantage.  It's a classic have-it-both-ways position.

Joe - well said about some sections of the alt right (and I would add "dark enlightenment") wanting to trash rennaisamnce/reformation/enlightenment  advances in hunan science - how on earth can one glorify the aristocracy ? - these people were nothing more than mafia warlords and thugs - its a shame the peasantry did not have a USA 2nd amendment and AR15's to deal with these parasites !

I don't think it is "racism" etc that puts the public off the counter jihad movement, its the fact that the various fascist type groups of past and present ( ie BNP,NF,Britain first etc) are just seen as banker's lackeys and boss's thugs.

Antony,

the problem with those moving to the alt-right (and their advocacy of a pre-Enlightenment society) is that they are thrashing about trying to grasp what is going on, and the alt-right is one of the only explanatory narratives available. The alt-right love to boast how many youthful, high-IQ, tech-savvy followers they have.  Many of those people are ready to abandon the Enlightenment and return to a "christianity" dominated, aristocratic, "nationalistic", unequal society.  I pointed them out on 4F first about 4 years ago, and we dismissed them. http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/the-rise-of-t...

Fascism/nazism/racism are unacceptable and inadequate narratives. Unless one thinks: what is going on now is a punishment for Nazism. That could explain Germany, but doesn't explain what's going on in UK, USA unless one says: all white people are to blame for the rise of Nazism, which is clearly nonsense since the Fabians and socialists are not blamed for the rise of National Socialism.  And even if the idea that "it's all a punishment for the rise of Nazism" worked as an explanation, where does that leave the subscribers to this?  Are they to promote Nazism as the antidote?  I have no doubt that there are people who are thinking more or less along these lines. And these people lurk at the fringe of the alt-right.

The best explanation (IMO) is that offered by understanding a) elites control democracies (so democracies don't do what The Demos really want) and b) the welfare state sows the seed of its own destruction (the road to serfdom).  After WW2 the elites transformed the meaning of Islam in the west (muslims in the West did not have the power to do this). This was part of elites wanting cheap labour (1950s, 1960s); ratcheted up with the oil crisis and Eurabia and the EU (1970s); then a triple whammy of "globalisation", falling populations in Europe, and muslims now being numerous enough in the West and organised/supported by the Ummah to exert their own transformation in the promotion of islam in the west (1990s onwards).

Libertarianism offers no narrative which can counter this. The Wankers of Libertarianism are far too concerned with  following a principle through to its "logical" conclusion, never mind if that is an insane position. Once you've decided that the police can be privatised, arguing that there should be no borders doesn't seem that whacky.  So, these wankers are too busy following their fantasy political economy to deal with the here and now. It's easer to deal with a "logically pure" fantasy than the messy exigencies of realpolitic.  

So, the alt-right is still the best show in town of those three narratives.

From a scientific and technological perspective, much of the "alt-right/dark enlightenment/neo-aristocratic" view is the same as that as Islam, the aristocrats/fascists were/are only concerned with hanging onto their power/seized wealth, whether by use of force or by more subtle means such as the sacred "divine right of kings", or sham democracy, historically, technological progress was/is often, indeed largely, caused by "subversive" or "anarchic" thinkers - remember Copernicus being burned at the stake by the Catholic church, or the censorship of the earlier editions of James George Frazer's "The Golden Bough" for instance.

I think one of the reasons Islam ahas never flourished (other than by looting other people), and the reason why apparently many muslims from the middle east are illiterate and have low iq, is that anyone who has an original thought, which is by definition bound to be against Islam, finds themselves executed, hence a "negative evolution" whereby the intelligent are killed and the stupid and obedient are encouraged to breed has occured.

A similar thing is thought to have happened with the medieval catholic church, which took the brightest people who were able to read, and made them take vows of celibacy !

Another example might be the African "Chieftanist" or "Big Daddy" system of social organisation - anyone who disagrees with the big boss gets killed or sold into slavery ( wth the muslim slave traders being willing accomplises in this of course, despite it's airbrushing out of history by leftists) - a cultural view, i might add, which has been imported over here in the form of what is generally known as "Gangstah Rap", with its glorification of thuggery to gain control, misogynist attitudes and worship of "bling".

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Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

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