The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

This forum is for collecting the interviews of Tommy Robinson, for the purposes of analysing the dialogue, finding questions that went astray, spotting dirty tricks that were played on him, and making suggestions of improved ways of responding or attacking.

This room is just for specific comments on the dialogue and interview as a dialogue skill.  Therefore, the interview will often be cross-posted from the UK Room, where members can just comment on the event in a general way.

Tags: -, Analysis, Dialogue, Interviews, Robinson, Tommy, and

Views: 294

Replies to This Discussion

I see what you are saying.  I cut and pasted those points there as guidelines.  I didn't mean that Tommy just read them out verbatim.  He needs to put different clothes on it.

Those 12 points are phrased in non-discriminatory terms, so that they can be implemented as acts of parliament, without breaking one of the core principles - 'equality before the law' - that our secular democracy (and 4F) are based on.  So yes, they are confusing, and its not immediately obvious what they are about.  But unless you phrase them that way, they will be torn to pieces by opponents, as 'racist' discrimination.

That said, for the purposes of an interview in front of the general public, the speaker can merely rephrase those 12 points in a more recognisable way.  Then later, in a more formal setting, when presented with the charge of discrimination, he can show that they are not actually discriminatory, in fact, when actioned properly, they are removing discriminations that have been allowed to creep in, thanks to the power of the Islamic lobby, and the virus-like nature of its culture.

So he could simply rephrase as follows, and give a more complete plan for stopping the 'Islamisation' process, as in the Example plan here:

http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/keyframeworks...

I don't know how Tommy would prefer to word and describe all those points, but they are sufficient to constitute a comprehensive program and reduce the interviewers (correct) charge that "You haven't told me what you would do".  He only mentioned about 4 points, and for half of those, she could say that 'we're trying to do that already'.

I've seen this played out so many times I'm really frustrated by it.  The interviewers have been asking for serious actions the government can pursue for years, and they've just been getting vague and disjointed answers.  Its not helping.

[A great comment copied from GOV: http://gatesofvienna.net/2017/05/more-on-julia-ebner-quilliam-and-t...]

I hope you don’t mind Baron, if I post a summary of some of my comments under those two pieces about Tommy, along with a few other thoughts.

This comment below the line in an anti-EDL two-minute hate piece in the Guardian, exemplifies the self-loathing and scorn of an element of middle-class liberals.
“The English lower classes are an embarrassment to our progressive, tolerant country the sooner they have disappeared for good the better for society.”
https://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/96404610

Because the violent Islamists and Salafist jihadis of al-Muhajiroun, of whom the EDL originally protested against, are such an improvement but of course they’re rarely to never mentioned, no context is provided.
That members of al-Muhajiroun were offered police protection, after getting a slap on the wrist for burning poppies, while the forces of the state and supposed antifas were turned on the EDL instead, is never mentioned either.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10120706...
Quilliam and the British state’s ‘anti-extremism’ Prevent programme make an utterly fatuous (and convenient) cultural relativism, wherein opposition to Salafist jihad and supremacist Islam, is painted as merely the other side of that ‘extremist’ coin and has meant the state getting involved, in what are effectively playground rants, which as Mark Steyn might say, is no small thing.
http://participator.online/articles/where_next_for_the_pretend_stra...
Various luvvies, Labour MPs and assorted virtue-signalers claim the EDL are closer to al Qeada and ISIS that “us”.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hope-not-hate-letter-mirror-19...

This is how Quilliam represented Tommy visiting their office to confront Julia Ebner about her piece in the Guardian;
‘Extremists Storm Quilliam Office……Quilliam was victim to extremist Tommy Robinson and alt-right Rebel media’s George Llewelyn-John’.
https://www.quilliaminternational.com/extremists-storm-quilliam-off...

More ”victims’ of extremism.

An Arab saying comes to mind, ‘I cry and hit you, then in tears say why did you hit me?’ 

In comparison and only to reveal just how fatuous the other side of the ‘extremist’ coin notion is- some of those ‘extremists’ in al-Muhajiroun, have been implemented in numerous acts of terror and some are apparently now in Syria, sending death threats to British MPs and instructions on how to avoid detection while plotting vehicular&knife jihad, (which the Telegraph kindly reprinted), this is also never mentioned.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11490030/Br...

Tommy and those like him, are presented as acting out of sheer bigotry, and that any grassroots resistance to Salafist jihad, is racist, white supremacism or at the very least the other side of the ‘extremist’ coin.

Let’s not forget Quilliam’s position, according to their Wiki-page is that “Islam is just a religion, not a political religion or an ideology”
“Socio-political Jihads are needed to achieve the goals of noble causes such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quilliam_%28think_tank%29
Such wishful-thinking and claims about Islam are debunked here:
https://ecawblog.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/examining-quilliams-claim...
Never-mind the OIC has signed up to the Declaration of Cairo, the Islamic human rights ‘subject to the Sharia’.

All of this slots into the wider progressive/Islamist convergence, where any resistance to the EU, replacement migration from MENA&Africa and the Islamisation of Europe is also vilified as ‘white nationalism’ and racism.
(Brexit is a start in a fight against this but with progressive globalist Tories in charge, it will be an uphill struggle).
Legitimate criticism of Islam is being slowly and incrementally criminalised.
Readers here at the GoV, thanks to it coverage, will be well aware of this process.

That vague term ‘Islamophobia’ is being conflated with ‘anti-Muslim’ and that’s being conflated with ‘racism’; blasphemy laws in all but name, albeit without Sharia punishments (we have de-facto Sharia executions like that of the Hebdo staff for that).
In other words:
“Islamophobia Is Racism”
http://www.osce.org/odihr/84495?download=true
https://islamophobiaisracism.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/islamophob...

How might this all play out? well, look at what happened when Tommy is subject to a kangaroo court by liberal media.
Muslims and ineffably smug middle-class liberals repeatedly shout ‘racist’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7XaPT71eg&spfreload=5
Critics of Sharia law are already called racists and Islamophobes.
Anne Marie Waters was called the other side of the pro-Sharia extremist coin by the BBC and Baroness Cox, was repeatedly interrupted and called a right-wing racist and Islamophobe by Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadan Foundation.
Baroness Cox is campaigning on the behalf of Muslim women, who had contacted her because they had suffered ill-treatment at the hands of Sharia councils in the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8VVAbCjJTc

Not only are Europeans being primed to accept violent Salafist jihad as ‘part and parcel’ of urban living but pointing out violent jihad along with notions of demographic and cultural imperialism, draws from mainstream Islamic doctrine, is also being incrementally criminalised as ‘extremism’ and ‘racism’.

Tommy Robinson is at the fore-front of this process and the ongoing vilification of Tommy as a ‘racist’ and an ‘extremist’, is part of the reason why certain people, feel they can incite violence against him without recrimination. whether Muslim or virtue-signaling progressive.
It’s hard to tell them apart sometimes.

I had given Quilliam the benefit of doubt on numerous occasions but no longer, they are just yet more apologists for Islam, who obfuscate mainstream Islamic doctrine and who wouldn’t exist if Islam itself wasn’t ‘extremist’.
In another bitter irony, Quilliam are said to be widely despised in the Muslim community, where they are perceived as government stooges.
Frankly I’m past caring, the video clip of Tommy Robinson facing a hostile liberal crowd, is a troubling snapshot of where things are going and it’s that type of audience Quilliam have provided, by way of half-truths,smears and guilt by association, plenty more ammunition.

RSS

Monitor this Page

You don't have to be a member of 4F to follow any room or topic! Just fill in on any page you like.

Privacy & Unsubscribe respected

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

© 2018   Created by Netcon.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service