The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Information

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Deals with ideological threats to our freedom and society.  

Analyses argument and rhetoric in all its forms: media interview, debate, and oratory.

Also considers fight back by fixing the 4 constitutional vulnerabilities as identified in the principles of 4F.

Members: 42
Latest Activity: 39 minutes ago

Key Info

Religious arguments go in the Theology Room, so all the rest (i.e. secular ones) come into this room. One-on-one arguments are treated in the same way as combat skills are treated in the UFC, as a pure skill, unrelated to the truth or falsehood (whatever that is) of the underlying message.

The CODA glossary is here:
http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/dialogue-analysis-glossary


Find more photos like this on The 4 Freedoms Library

  • "The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)" - Alan Lake
  • "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments." - Hayek, 1961

Related Sites:
http://www.ethicalsoc.org.uk
http://www.humanism.org.uk
http://www.iransecularsociety.com
http://www.secularism.org.uk

Discussion Forum

The Power Elite

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony on Thursday. 406 Replies

The Death of Democracy - collected articles

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake on Tuesday. 18 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Esme Allman

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 10. 2 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Linda Sarsour

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Aug 31. 7 Replies

Terminal Societal Sickness

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Aug 2. 29 Replies

James Burnham

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Jul 7. 6 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Tariq Ramadan

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 22. 1 Reply

The Drag Queen vs. the Burqa

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 21. 1 Reply

Gangocracy: the Future of Egalitarian Democracy

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Philip Smeeton May 29. 35 Replies

Jordan Peterson: Top Articles

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 28. 1 Reply

The Best of Mark Steyn

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 15. 8 Replies

Alt-Right and the media.

Started by Philip Smeeton. Last reply by Antony Apr 23. 28 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Alan Lake on March 18, 2017 at 1:25
Yes, its clear where we are heading. And ironically, its the advanced technology of social media, that is leading us back to the witch hunts and mobocracy of the middle ages.
Comment by Joe on March 17, 2017 at 17:56

Alan, the Left are now advising their activists to give up on facts (like they ever cared about facts) and to deploy emotion instead.

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/842748822535266304

Comment by Antony on March 17, 2017 at 14:31
Comment by Antony on March 13, 2017 at 8:40
Comment by Antony on March 12, 2017 at 16:12
Comment by Antony on March 10, 2017 at 10:10

Phil - agreed - a flaw in the "intelligent elite" argument is that it presumes that all those with intelligence also have ethical and moral standards, given that you also get intelligent psychopaths,sociopaths, fraudsters, sexual sadists etc this is clearly not the case.

The history of the traditional aristocracies and modern day banking swindlers with their "legalised scams" also shows that we need a new rennaisance/revolution.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on March 10, 2017 at 9:22

Populist:

-a member or adherent of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people.

• a person who holds, or who is concerned with, the views of ordinary people.-

Populist sounds OK to me.

I seem to remember from my youth the idea being fielded that we should be governed by a world government that consisted of the most intelligent and talented people on the planet. Sounds good on paper, but as we see in the way that the elites; the intelligent and talented; are messing up and destroying the countries where they are in command, that they totally ignore the needs of ordinary people. rather they dictate to them how they should behave and what they should feel and believe in.  The elites have theories about how things ought to be that do not correspond with the reality of the everyday lives of ordinary people.

We the people, the ordinary people object to being forced to act against our own interests, and for being morally condemned for not conforming to our betters’ idea of how we ought to be.

We are what we are, normal, ordinary and natural and we know what we want and how we want to live. So stop telling us we are evil and wrong and that you know better.

In a true democracy it is the will of the majority of ordinary people that has to rule.

Comment by Antony on March 9, 2017 at 17:24

"Axios" - a book that shaped Steve Bannon's thinking ; http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/07/axios-book-shape...

Comment by Philip Smeeton on March 4, 2017 at 15:16

Hitler was a racial socialist. One empire, one people, one leader. He and his followers are usually placed on the far-right, should be on the far-left? but possibly should be in a category of their own= Nazis.

National socialists. International socialists. Blind obedience to the leader/leaders. The state being the collective population, to work for the state is to work for yourself? 

The Nazis, (socialists)Communists and Muslims have much in common, (and Hitler is said to have admired the ruthlessness and fanaticism of Islam).

They are all in their way the enemies of democracy and freedom. They all tell people how to live and what is right. And they give little choice to the individual.

I guess I would call myself a freedom loving national democrat.

We cannot allow or accept extreme-socialism, extreme-religionism or extreme-racialism. But we have to accept these things in small appropriate doses. Genuine social justice, the right to believe in something benevolent and the right to choose what type of people you want to share your way of life with.

You have the right to choose for yourself, just not on my behalf, I demand my own right to choose (hopefully wisely).

Comment by Antony on March 4, 2017 at 13:34
 

Members (42)

 
 
 

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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