The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Information

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Deals with ideological threats to our freedom and society.  

Analyses argument and rhetoric in all its forms: media interview, debate, and oratory.

Also considers fight back by fixing the 4 constitutional vulnerabilities as identified in the principles of 4F.

Members: 42
Latest Activity: on Thursday

Key Info

Religious arguments go in the Theology Room, so all the rest (i.e. secular ones) come into this room. One-on-one arguments are treated in the same way as combat skills are treated in the UFC, as a pure skill, unrelated to the truth or falsehood (whatever that is) of the underlying message.

The CODA glossary is here:
http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/dialogue-analysis-glossary


Find more photos like this on The 4 Freedoms Library

  • "The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)" - Alan Lake
  • "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments." - Hayek, 1961

Related Sites:
http://www.ethicalsoc.org.uk
http://www.humanism.org.uk
http://www.iransecularsociety.com
http://www.secularism.org.uk

Discussion Forum

Terminal Societal Sickness

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Aug 2. 29 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Linda Sarsour

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 31. 6 Replies

James Burnham

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Jul 7. 6 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left - Tariq Ramadan

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 22. 1 Reply

The Drag Queen vs. the Burqa

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 21. 1 Reply

The Power Elite

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Jun 17. 404 Replies

Gangocracy: the Future of Egalitarian Democracy

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Philip Smeeton May 29. 35 Replies

Jordan Peterson: Top Articles

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 28. 1 Reply

The Best of Mark Steyn

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 15. 8 Replies

Alt-Right and the media.

Started by Philip Smeeton. Last reply by Antony Apr 23. 28 Replies

Hitler: inside the mind of a dictator

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Mar 26. 1 Reply

Failed Heroes of the Left: Che Guevara

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jan 25. 9 Replies

Family Discussions and Christmas

Started by Alan Lake Nov 21, 2016. 0 Replies

Comment Wall

Add a Comment

You need to be a member of Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution to add comments!

Comment by Kinana on May 16, 2017 at 19:31

Heather, just to remind you that everything here is on public view! 

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 16, 2017 at 17:22

You can use my name.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 16, 2017 at 17:21

Cultural relativism, ethics and morality. Human behaviour.

I keep coming back to a book series I read about anthropology 40 years ago Heather. Cannot remember it word perfect (or find it now), but a researcher asked a tribe of cannibals  on Borneo what they called the neighbouring tribe, their answer was "food". Other groups that had no contact with the outside world, when asked what was on the other side of the mountains answered "nothing". 

"Cannibalism has been said to test the bounds of cultural relativism as it challenges anthropologists "to define what is or is not beyond the pale of acceptable human behavior."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism

 "... Of course, there are also societies who eat people just because they like the taste. ..."

https://books.google.no/books?id=EoM7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT22&lpg=P...

I try to keep to reality and fact. I may be deluded, but I consider myself to be a perfectly normal person just like you are Heather.

Comment by Heather Gilbert on May 16, 2017 at 9:33

In response to your comments Philip. Got you now. I needed a paradigm shift in my thinking, to get where you are coming from. I put your statement that morality is a fiction on my FB wall (obviously did not name you) and asked for feedback on the statement.  Got very mixed feedback. There were a few who thought that anyone writing that is a sociopath or psychopath. Some got it. 

Very thought provoking.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 15, 2017 at 9:58

The sense of right or wrong is I believe not given but learned. Our own self-interest is always underlying.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 15, 2017 at 9:50

I believe as little in morality as I do in truth or laws or supernatural beings Heather.

You have to begin at zero and reject all of the knowledge and truth that you have been taught. Then find out what is best for you and for those people and things that you care about. You also have to examine why you care about these things and people.

Why is killing and eating people repugnant to most of us?, and why do we not wish harm to others sometimes and other times wish them pain? We accept the morality and laws that suits us personally and our particular society form best. We make the laws and choose what to believe to be right and wrong. It is all psychology and human brain activity to me.

Mostly I do not wish others harm and some people I like. I accept reasonable laws and I have a sense of right and wrong, I just have to be sure that it is right or wrong, and that involves questioning beliefs and accepted norms. Basically I do not think that people should harm or cause distress to each other. but I am prepared to defend myself by any means. I am even capable of “love”. I know that I hate and that is not always wrong.

Comment by Heather Gilbert on May 14, 2017 at 20:21

"We would be less prone to moral intimidation if it was understood that morality is a fiction that we choose to believe in for our own selfish gains".

 I am shocked that this has come from you Philip. I have always regarded you as someone with high morals, though many lefties would vehemently disagree.

Comment by paul collings on May 11, 2017 at 19:45

Europes demographic future by the numbers. Voting Labour or conservative doesn't address the demographics, and another two five year terms for either party will just mean another 5 million immigrants, nothing more than that. ...and Chomsky might finally have shut up of course..one can only hope.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 11, 2017 at 15:46

Chomsky and Labour. 

“….claiming that Labour would be doing far better in opinion polls if it were not for the “bitter” hostility of the mainstream media”.

I thought most journalists were socialists?

Chomsky is only confirming that socialism is dying.

I would say that what the electorate wants is more law and order not revised liberal socialist ideals. It is the socialist experiment with multicutural society that is causing most of our social problems. Labour is bound to move further left as it loses popularity.

Chomsky argues that only socialism can save us from global warming and nuclear war. He does not mention the threat from Islam at all and narcotics are presently more of a threat than atom bombs.

Technology and human genius will solve our pollution problems but only common sense and strict laws can save us from the real issue, which is overpopulation.

Chomsky and Labour’s socialism spends more money than it earns, which of course bankrupts society.

What Chomsky describes as a breakdown in democracy is just democracy functioning and people making democratic choices, but then socialists dislike democracy if it does not guarantee them power. Socialism equals big government.

There are two-party systems in place in the US and Britain so it will always be a surprise if any other party or candidate makes gains.

It seems that most political activists want to take away our freedom, which I would not mind so much if it gave me a normal and secure life, but to them we are just lab-rats that they can conduct their social experiments on.

Comment by Kinana on May 11, 2017 at 14:09

Labour party’s future lies with Momentum, says Noam Chomsky

In an interview with the Guardian, the radical intellectual threw his weight behind Jeremy Corbyn, claiming that Labour would be doing far better in opinion polls if it were not for the “bitter” hostility of the mainstream media.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-party%E2%80%99s-future-...

 

Members (42)

 
 
 

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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