The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Information

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Deals with ideological threats to our freedom and society.  

Analyses argument and rhetoric in all its forms: media interview, debate, and oratory.

Also considers fight back by fixing the 4 constitutional vulnerabilities as identified in the principles of 4F.

Members: 42
Latest Activity: 13 hours ago

Key Info

Religious arguments go in the Theology Room, so all the rest (i.e. secular ones) come into this room. One-on-one arguments are treated in the same way as combat skills are treated in the UFC, as a pure skill, unrelated to the truth or falsehood (whatever that is) of the underlying message.

The CODA glossary is here:
http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/dialogue-analysis-glossary


Find more photos like this on The 4 Freedoms Library

  • "The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)" - Alan Lake
  • "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments." - Hayek, 1961

Related Sites:
http://www.ethicalsoc.org.uk
http://www.humanism.org.uk
http://www.iransecularsociety.com
http://www.secularism.org.uk

Discussion Forum

The Power Elite

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Nov 10. 409 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Che Guevara

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Nov 3. 10 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Billy Bragg

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana Oct 26. 1 Reply

4 Freedoms - Key Frameworks

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 23. 7 Replies

How to Live as a Dissident

Started by Alan Lake Oct 14. 0 Replies

Jordan Peterson: Top Articles

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 6. 2 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Linda Sarsour

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 25. 8 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Esme Allman

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 10. 2 Replies

Terminal Societal Sickness

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Aug 2. 29 Replies

James Burnham

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Jul 7. 6 Replies

The Drag Queen vs. the Burqa

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 21. 1 Reply

Comment Wall

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Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 15, 2017 at 9:50

I believe as little in morality as I do in truth or laws or supernatural beings Heather.

You have to begin at zero and reject all of the knowledge and truth that you have been taught. Then find out what is best for you and for those people and things that you care about. You also have to examine why you care about these things and people.

Why is killing and eating people repugnant to most of us?, and why do we not wish harm to others sometimes and other times wish them pain? We accept the morality and laws that suits us personally and our particular society form best. We make the laws and choose what to believe to be right and wrong. It is all psychology and human brain activity to me.

Mostly I do not wish others harm and some people I like. I accept reasonable laws and I have a sense of right and wrong, I just have to be sure that it is right or wrong, and that involves questioning beliefs and accepted norms. Basically I do not think that people should harm or cause distress to each other. but I am prepared to defend myself by any means. I am even capable of “love”. I know that I hate and that is not always wrong.

Comment by Heather Gilbert on May 14, 2017 at 20:21

"We would be less prone to moral intimidation if it was understood that morality is a fiction that we choose to believe in for our own selfish gains".

 I am shocked that this has come from you Philip. I have always regarded you as someone with high morals, though many lefties would vehemently disagree.

Comment by paul collings on May 11, 2017 at 19:45

Europes demographic future by the numbers. Voting Labour or conservative doesn't address the demographics, and another two five year terms for either party will just mean another 5 million immigrants, nothing more than that. ...and Chomsky might finally have shut up of course..one can only hope.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 11, 2017 at 15:46

Chomsky and Labour. 

“….claiming that Labour would be doing far better in opinion polls if it were not for the “bitter” hostility of the mainstream media”.

I thought most journalists were socialists?

Chomsky is only confirming that socialism is dying.

I would say that what the electorate wants is more law and order not revised liberal socialist ideals. It is the socialist experiment with multicutural society that is causing most of our social problems. Labour is bound to move further left as it loses popularity.

Chomsky argues that only socialism can save us from global warming and nuclear war. He does not mention the threat from Islam at all and narcotics are presently more of a threat than atom bombs.

Technology and human genius will solve our pollution problems but only common sense and strict laws can save us from the real issue, which is overpopulation.

Chomsky and Labour’s socialism spends more money than it earns, which of course bankrupts society.

What Chomsky describes as a breakdown in democracy is just democracy functioning and people making democratic choices, but then socialists dislike democracy if it does not guarantee them power. Socialism equals big government.

There are two-party systems in place in the US and Britain so it will always be a surprise if any other party or candidate makes gains.

It seems that most political activists want to take away our freedom, which I would not mind so much if it gave me a normal and secure life, but to them we are just lab-rats that they can conduct their social experiments on.

Comment by Kinana on May 11, 2017 at 14:09

Labour party’s future lies with Momentum, says Noam Chomsky

In an interview with the Guardian, the radical intellectual threw his weight behind Jeremy Corbyn, claiming that Labour would be doing far better in opinion polls if it were not for the “bitter” hostility of the mainstream media.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-party%E2%80%99s-future-...

Comment by Antony on May 8, 2017 at 12:16
Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 8, 2017 at 8:32

I really really hope that Socialism is fading away. But you do not stop fighting an enemy until he is really really dead. Socialism and Islam.

Comment by Antony on May 7, 2017 at 12:07
Comment by Philip Smeeton on April 24, 2017 at 11:09

You cannot ignore intelligence, race or religion in human relations or pretend that differences do not exist or matter. Let's face it people that believe in supernatural beings are just plain stupid. Then people prefer their own kind. We would be less prone to moral intimidation if it was understood that morality is a fiction that we choose to believe in for our own selfish gains.

Comment by Antony on April 23, 2017 at 18:31

Forbidden Knowledge - Sam harris & Charles Murray ; https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/forbidden-knowledge?utm_sour...

 

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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