The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Information

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Deals with ideological threats to our freedom and society.  

Analyses argument and rhetoric in all its forms: media interview, debate, and oratory.

Also considers fight back by fixing the 4 constitutional vulnerabilities as identified in the principles of 4F.

Members: 42
Latest Activity: Sep 16

Key Info

Religious arguments go in the Theology Room, so all the rest (i.e. secular ones) come into this room. One-on-one arguments are treated in the same way as combat skills are treated in the UFC, as a pure skill, unrelated to the truth or falsehood (whatever that is) of the underlying message.

The CODA glossary is here:
http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/dialogue-analysis-glossary


Find more photos like this on The 4 Freedoms Library

  • "The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)" - Alan Lake
  • "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments." - Hayek, 1961

Related Sites:
http://www.ethicalsoc.org.uk
http://www.humanism.org.uk
http://www.iransecularsociety.com
http://www.secularism.org.uk

Discussion Forum

Terminal Societal Sickness

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 16. 40 Replies

Lauren Southern - leaving politics

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Jul 31. 5 Replies

The Power Elite

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Feb 7. 664 Replies

The Death of Democracy - collected articles

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 12, 2021. 32 Replies

Doxing the Doxers

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 9, 2021. 2 Replies

The Ideological Chasm

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Mar 2, 2021. 336 Replies

The US constitution

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Dec 3, 2020. 2 Replies

How to Respond to Abuse from SJW & Leftists

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 18, 2020. 2 Replies

Fascism, Nazism and Socialism - collected articles

Started by Paul Austin Murphy. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 20, 2020. 81 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 22, 2022 at 21:28

"It's a revision of the old way of thinking about politics and moral values, and it uses modern technology and methods which previously were not available."
The work you are doing is necessary Alan.
Just some random thoughts:
Not sure of my facts here but I was impressed by something about Swiss democracy where one hundred men meet up in a market place and vote on local issues. Which is about the level that democracy can function properly. Blow that up to 50 million and instant and secure communication. Then that 50 million (those that want to) can meet regularly and decide upon issues both local and global. Dispense with politicians entirely and have only departments to manage health housing education economy and every aspect of running a society that requires planning and organised execution. According to the policies laid down by the engaged percentage of the populace. There has to be expertise employed to monitor and recognise the basic needs of the society as it evolves.
Morality is an issue and the education system has to be ideologically neutral and concerned with actual knowledge. The majority must decide right and wrong.
I do not agree with the moral values that are around today, I prefer the ones I grew up with. The world is not on my shoulders, other nations must be responsible according to their own needs and leave my culture alone. If they starve or live in poverty is not my concern. I only ask what do they have to trade with.
I think I should have a say and the right to choose what my tax payments are used on. I would not pay for foreign aid or welfare to immigrants.
If our income was described as points we could decide how many points we would assign to roadbuilding, hospitals, scientific research and so on. And what we refused to give points to.

Comment by Alan Lake on August 22, 2022 at 12:33
We have to find a democratic system that protects us rather than exposes us.

That is so true Philip! Once again you've encapsulated the situation in a single sentence. I've been working on that project for a while, and 4Freedoms.com represents the beginning of my interest in finding a new/revised system.

The only thing I'd change in your comment is your last sentence. Instead of:

  • Politicians must be servants of the people not their masters

I'd say:

  • The decision making delegates of the people must be their agents not their masters

In the revised model that I am working on, called CAG or Complex Adaptive Government, the most important principle, is not liberty, free speech, human rights, or democracy, etc.  Oddly enough, it is the ability to select what level of interaction you have with the political system, and a corresponding ability to delegate different decision making areas to people who, in general, you agree with.  So instead of asking one person to represent all your political views, you could assign different areas to different people. 

Then when we say those people are your agent, instead of slave, it's because we are thinking more in terms of ABM (Agent Based Modelling) being a tool of this system, and that the 'agent' could be not just one person, it could be a group, or even a computer program.

Many will object that I'm just talking about fine-grained micro-level democracy, which is partly true, but what I propose is far more than that. It's a revision of the old way of thinking about politics and moral values, and it uses modern technology and methods which previously were not available. I think it's pretty clear that the old way of talking about these issues, that we've been using since the time of the Greeks, doesn't work anymore. 

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 21, 2022 at 10:48

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Serfdom
-Socialism, while presented as a means of assuring equality, does so through "restraint and servitude", while "democracy seeks equality in liberty".[18] Planning, because it is coercive, is an inferior method of regulation, while the competition of a free market is superior "because it is the only method by which our activities can be adjusted to each other without coercive or arbitrary intervention of authority".[19]-
(I take this to mean that socialism is in essense undemocratic. Unrestrained capitaism or socialism is not good. But it is socialism that has gotten us into the mess that we are in now- a time of unrestricted silly and destructive ideas. We have to find a democratic system that protects us rather than exposes us. Politicians must be servants of the people not their masters).

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 10, 2022 at 17:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBf6kJIbXLg
John Cleese's War on Wokeism
John Cleese describes here why the Japanese and Chinese are not creative.
He has previously said that you cannot joke about Islam because the Muslims will kill you for it. The wokes in positions of power also have meetings about how to suffocate creativity.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 10, 2022 at 10:37

The germanic people created the modern world and respected and studied the previous cultures from which they gained knowledge and wisdom.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 10, 2022 at 10:28

The British never set out with an intention to conquer the world. The British Empire began with private capitalist trade ventures and evolved as the need to protect business interests arose.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 10, 2022 at 10:25

https://mises.org/library/other-socialisms
I would say that loyalty to the society culture nation and folk comes before everything else. That a job well done is done by the individual primarily for his own satisfaction and then for the good of the whole. Provided the individual is also adequately rewarded for his efforts.
We are responsible for our own wellbeing and the wellbeing of those that we care for and identify with. The rest of humanity must take responsiblity for itself. We are not obliged to help them.
Everybody else against white heterosexual males- terrifying and the end of it all.
It's the cannot does versus the can does, which means the end of creativeness, inventiveness and progress; and the end of intelligence.
We have to have some form of capitalism in order to produce wealth and a little socialism to help those with disabilities, but what we most need is an intelligent relationship with reality.

Comment by Alan Lake on August 9, 2022 at 19:34
These contours to European ideology, as they emerged during the French revolutionary era, largely were cast by the Franks in the period before, and after Charlemagne. It was then that the doctrine of racial superiority arose (‘others’ were ‘barbarian’ and Pagan and served only as slaves). It was then too, that outward, predatory expansionism (the Crusades, then colonialism) was embedded in the European psyche.

What an asshole. The word 'barbarian' dates back to the Greeks, i. e. before Charlemagne.

The idea of racial superiority can be seen in the first writings and stelle, for example the Assyrians and the Spartans.

The Crusades were not 'predatory expansionism', but an attempt to push back the Muslim colonialism of Christian Lands.

That's just one paragraph. He should keep his mouth shut until he's learned a bit more. 

Comment by Antony on August 9, 2022 at 11:03
Comment by Alan Lake on August 8, 2022 at 23:59

This podcast is a really good review and summary of the marxism-cultural marxism - wokeism - BLM movements:

https://mises.org/library/other-socialisms

 

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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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