The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Information

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Deals with ideological threats to our freedom and society.  

Analyses argument and rhetoric in all its forms: media interview, debate, and oratory.

Also considers fight back by fixing the 4 constitutional vulnerabilities as identified in the principles of 4F.

Members: 42
Latest Activity: Sep 16

Key Info

Religious arguments go in the Theology Room, so all the rest (i.e. secular ones) come into this room. One-on-one arguments are treated in the same way as combat skills are treated in the UFC, as a pure skill, unrelated to the truth or falsehood (whatever that is) of the underlying message.

The CODA glossary is here:
http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/dialogue-analysis-glossary


Find more photos like this on The 4 Freedoms Library

  • "The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)" - Alan Lake
  • "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments." - Hayek, 1961

Related Sites:
http://www.ethicalsoc.org.uk
http://www.humanism.org.uk
http://www.iransecularsociety.com
http://www.secularism.org.uk

Discussion Forum

Terminal Societal Sickness

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 16. 40 Replies

Lauren Southern - leaving politics

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Jul 31. 5 Replies

The Power Elite

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Feb 7. 664 Replies

The Death of Democracy - collected articles

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 12, 2021. 32 Replies

Doxing the Doxers

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 9, 2021. 2 Replies

The Ideological Chasm

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Mar 2, 2021. 336 Replies

The US constitution

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Dec 3, 2020. 2 Replies

How to Respond to Abuse from SJW & Leftists

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 18, 2020. 2 Replies

Fascism, Nazism and Socialism - collected articles

Started by Paul Austin Murphy. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 20, 2020. 81 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Antony on September 7, 2022 at 14:03

World Economic Forum Futurist: ‘We Just Don’t Need the Vast Majority of the Population’ ; https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2022-09-06/world-economic-forum-futu...

Comment by Antony on August 28, 2022 at 20:18
Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 27, 2022 at 8:31

My approach is that proportional representation is as good as democracy gets right now. Britain should have this.

I given the power would solve the situation by removing all of the causes of this decline. It would involve mass- deportations. stronger punishments for crime. patriotism and nationalism. A strong defence to defend our territory and interests. Let the muslim world rot and muslims murder each other. No Muslims Islam or Africans in Britain. Every policy directed solely towards the benefit and improvement of conditions for the Native British. An unashamedly racist and self-centred nation wishing no harm to any other nation.

An honest and objective look at what is wrong with Britain (and the USA) would I hope agree with me. It all began with mass immigration and all of the silliness and nonsense ideology grew out from the destruction that that wreaked.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 26, 2022 at 23:09

It would also have to be stern and carry a big stick.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 26, 2022 at 23:06

Write an outline and envisage a stucture that is genuinely democratic.

Describing a system as if it actually already existed and was functioning would be an idea. A nation with an ideal democracy as you envision that to be, capable of evolving and improving, adapting to changes in the environment like a viable organism. Always with the aim of the comfort prosperity fulfillment and security of the individual and the majority. Not a rigid ideology intended to control every aspect of life. Freedom and Democracy what are they, define that and how to maintain, run and preserve it. Happiness.

Comment by Alan Lake on August 26, 2022 at 20:19

Thanks Philip! Your encouragement is useful because I am poor at time management so have a half formed book inside me struggling to get out. I hope to go on a retreat for a few months sometime, in order to do some serious writing. 

I also worry that after all that effort, only 3 or 4 people will read it.  But in the end, you just have to write, because it's the only way of sorting out the ideas bubbling in your mind, and then feeling at peace with them.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 25, 2022 at 16:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQxS4M4C8HU
Left-wing Americans 'changed' pro-Palestine view when confronted with 'true facts'
(The power of playing the victim and assuming the role of an oppressed minority.
And how little people really think.
Confronting people with absolutely undeniable facts might change their attitudes towards certain supposedly oppressed groups of people).

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 24, 2022 at 9:09

I am a primitive and express myself crudely.
You Alan can express ideas in a manner worthy of publication.

"So what I propose is that we drop all pretence of trying to construct a processor which uses moral statements (like "all men have the right to ...") and accept that all these moral statements are arbitrary so different cultures pick different, and even opposing ones. Then the only method you can use for selecting those criteria is the one you just stated: by choice of the majority. So we shouldn't pretend that 'abortion can happen at 9 months' or 'abortion must never happen' are rules handed down from God or some universal moral code somewhere, with universal validity for all time, like the laws of physics. We just say: "it is the sum of our personal choices". Attempting to construct the governmental processor using moral guidelines, just doesn't work anymore."

Get the intelligent and correct version of reality out there.
Not a new reality, just the reality that is already there. The minds of men are full of crap and always will be. We must see things as they really are.

When I was at school we were taught fine carpentry. All of the joints had to be true and fit, every angle correct and every surface precisely flat and even. Every edge straight and each furniture practical and useful. We were taught real knowledge, pride in a job well done, good behaviour and belief in ourselves and nation. A smack here and there too.

Comment by Alan Lake on August 23, 2022 at 23:32
Morality is an issue and the education system has to be ideologically. The majority must decide right and wrong.

So what I propose is that we drop all pretence of trying to construct a processor which uses moral statements (like "all men have the right to ...") and accept that all these moral statements are arbitrary so different cultures pick different, and even opposing ones. Then the only method you can use for selecting those criteria is the one you just stated: by choice of the majority. So we shouldn't pretend that 'abortion can happen at 9 months' or 'abortion must never happen' are rules handed down from God or some universal moral code somewhere, with universal validity for all time, like the laws of physics. We just say: "it is the sum of our personal choices". Attempting to construct the governmental processor using moral guidelines, just doesn't work anymore.

I think I should have a say and the right to choose what my tax payments are used on. If our income was described as points we could decide how many points we would assign to road building, hospitals, scientific research and so on. And what we refused to give points to.

Yes. It's uncanny how you are mirroring the points in my theory of CAG (Complex Adaptive Government). We all have accounts with Amazon where we:

  1. ask for goods and services
  2. tell them our preferences so they can decide policy
  3. give them corresponding money

But we have no unified account with the government where we can interact with them to this extent. And when we do interact with the government once a year to  submit a tax return, it is only to decide how much money we must give them; it says nothing about items (1) and (2). Isn't it ridiculous, that Amazon, a commercial company nowhere near as big as the national government,  can interact with us in a way 3 times more complex and useful?

Comment by Philip Smeeton on August 22, 2022 at 21:34

A system that stifles creativity freethinking and inventiveness will perish.

There has to be incentive.

 

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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