The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

That makes things a bit interesting.


Italy has denied religious status to Islam.  Politicians cited extremist (fundamentalist)  imams, polygamy and failure to uphold women's rights by Muslims immigrants as obstacles to recognizing Islam as an official religion in Italy.


Wake up Australia,


Italy has had the sense to realise this is not a religion.

Views: 146

Replies to This Discussion

Amazing news, altho I would issue a cautionary note.

I don't think that that position will/can be maintained long term. By a process of slow erosion, obfuscation and creating intellectual doubt, Islam would I think gradually attain that status again.

The problem fundamentally is that the law was originally written to avoid any discrimination against 'religion' without, in any country, (as far as I know) ever defining exactly what a religion is. So you have a whole class of exemptions clearly defined; applicable to a whole class of people, not at all defined. Its madness.

I don't think you can define religion in any case, since you can never define 'God', which is pretty basic to the definition for starters. And even if you can get around the 'God' definition problem, its then going to depend on some pretty arbitrary choices whether Islam falls into that 'religion' category or not. Thus this method would become a version of the logical fallacy "Begging the question".

I think the only true solution is to remove from the law any kind of exemptions or special conditions for any religion. Then all religions, all ideologies, all people's actions and words, will fall under the purview of the law, without any exemptions whatsoever, and Islamists will no longer be able to use their religion to mask their actions and intentions.
This is really a major step in the right direction. I note that the parliament removed the status of religion from Islam. They did not define religion but recognised that however you define religion Islam is not it! This approach avoids the conundrums that Alan Lake mentions. It may be a bit vague but I suspect it will hold.

The onus is now on Islam to get back into the fold of ‘religion’.
Now this is quick thinking, I am impressed well done Italy.......really nice work!


Page Monitor

Just fill in the box below on any 4F page to be notified when it changes.

Privacy & Unsubscribe respected

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

© 2022   Created by Netcon.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service