The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Well i just thought id have a go back after all respect is reciprocal and should never be taken for granted.

For those 4freedoms guys and gals out there who i have worked with whos opinions actually matter, whos input has been good for the EDL movement i do appreciate your efforts and hope to continue working with you in the future.

For those who wished to change the EDL's direction and objectives i can only say how sad i am as your unrelenting and "odious" agendas were only about self gratification, contortion of a workable strategy, plain intellectual snobbery and sheer ignorance.


Wishing all those who are desperately in need of an epiphany to step into the light of the real world and see the error of their "fundamental" flaws, and to change accordingly.

May the gates of IJTIHAD be open!

Thank you. 

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Replies to This Discussion

nemisis123456 said:
Well im not a soft lad so thanks for that recognition. You bravely blog from a muslim country that you hate, a country full of people you hate, a country whos religion you hate, from the privacy of the great indoors???

So where have i stated I hate Indonesia, where have stated I hate the people. Indonesia has five state-recognized religion and I only hate one, Islam.

A common feature among new Hindu communities in Java is that they tend to rally around recently built temples (pura) or around archaeological temple sites (candi) which are being reclaimed as places of Hindu worship. One of several new Hindu temples in eastern Java is Pura Mandaragiri Sumeru Agung, located on the slope of Mt Sumeru, Java's highest mountain. Not so far from where I live When the temple was completed in July 1992, with the generous aid of wealthy donors from Bali, only a few local families formally confessed to Hinduism. A pilot study in December 1999 revealed that the local Hindu community now has grown to more than 5000 households.

Similar mass conversions have occurred in the region around Pura Agung Blambangan, another new temple, built on a site with minor archaeological remnants attributed to the kingdom of Blambangan, the last Hindu polity on Java. A further important site is Pura Loka Moksa Jayabaya (in the village of Menang near Kediri), where the Hindu king and prophet Jayabaya is said to have achieved spiritual liberation (moksa). A further Hindu movement in the earliest stages of development was observed in the vicinity of the newly completed Pura Pucak Raung (in the Eastern Javanese district of Glenmore), which is mentioned in Balinese literature as the place where the Hindu saint Maharishi Markandeya gathered followers for an expedition to Bali, whereby he is said to have brought Hinduism to Bali in the fifth century AD. An example of resurgence around major archaeological remains of ancient Hindu temple sites was observed in Trowulan near Mojokerto. The site may be the location of the capital of the legendary Hindu empire Majapahit.

A local Hindu movement is struggling to gain control of a newly excavated temple building which they wish to see restored as a site of active Hindu worship. The temple is to be dedicated to Gajah Mada, the man attributed with transforming the small Hindu kingdom of Majapahit into an empire. Although there has been a more pronounced history of resistance to Islamization in East Java, Hindu communities are also expanding in Central Java, for example in Klaten, near the ancient Hindu monuments of Prambanan.

nemisis123456 said:
Surely it would be best you just left that country as its a MUSLIM country and will no doubt continue to be a MUSLIM country no matter how hard you try and make it otherwise? Sounds like your efforts are pissing in the wind Shiva!

Indonesia is a great place despite islam, fantastic weather, I wonder if England would be so great when it finally succumbs to Islam

Very happy for you Shiva.

UK Government called the terrorist threat "severe" just after Christmas. Only 23 (out of over 600) MP's signed the Early Day Motion to ban EDL.

I think another Early Day Motion to really get to grips with things (no wish to be definitive) would be okay. We are all under threat and have been for as long as I can remember. The death threat of terrorism affects the safety of politicians. Maybe a well worded EDM would bring this point to MP's collective attention; certainly my own MP listens to my emails knowing he is not immune from an untimely end.
Floradeliza said:
. Only 23 (out of over 600) MP's signed the Early Day Motion to ban EDL. I think another Early Day Motion to really get to grips with things (no wish to be definitive) would be okay. We are all under threat and have been for as long as I can remember. The death threat of terrorism affects the safety of politicians. Maybe a well worded EDM would bring this point to MP's collective attention; certainly my own MP listens to my emails knowing he is not immune from an untimely end.

Early day motions (EDMs) are formal motions submitted for debate in the House of Commons. However, very few EDMs are actually debated. Instead, they are used for reasons such as publicising the views of individual MPs, drawing attention to specific events or campaigns, and demonstrating the extent of parliamentary support for a particular cause or point of view.

Although there is very little prospect of EDMs being debated, many attract a great deal of public interest and frequently receive media coverage.

In an average session only six or seven EDMs reach over two hundred signatures. Around seventy or eighty get over one hundred signatures. The majority will attract only one or two signatures.

An EDM is not likely to be debated even if it gains a large number of signatures.

Why bother ?
To be on the front line of anything is tough. To be there on this issue is even tougher. EDL is making a positive contribution in many ways to the life of this country in regards to civil liberties and also specifically in highlighting the Islamic threat to a wider public. Any criticisms of EDL, SIOE and other anti-jihad expressions should be constructive and helpful in the details. Society is in a new situation and there is no blue print for the way forward. The path is made by those who walk it. Thanks for your posting here.
imho -

In chats with off-line friends, the concerns over Muslims far (and I do mean far) out-number the ppl who don't have concerns. The two year jail sentence for terrotism is illogical if the culprit intends to die anyway.

Organising up-and-down-the-country meetings with councillors and/or waiting for a change of government is time-consuming, but a look at the Tory-popular Daily Mail's recent articles on Muslims as benefit-scroungers, the Teleraph's Ed West's articles about Islam (see them on-line, and News Of The World's Carole Malone suggest headway is being made.


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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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