The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Gay Victims of Kuffarphobia


Gay Victims of Kuffarphobia

We work to protect Gay people from the neo-fascists of the political left and the religious right.

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Members: 17
Latest Activity: Jul 19, 2018

Discussion Forum

Forcing People to be Transsexual

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Mar 17, 2018. 4 Replies

The Complicity of the Gay Media

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Jan 19, 2017. 10 Replies

The new Egypt.

Started by paul collings. Last reply by paul collings Nov 2, 2014. 8 Replies

Why Cameron Disowned Douglas Murray

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Dec 22, 2012. 6 Replies

Douglas Murray: What are we to do about Islam

Started by Joe. Last reply by paul collings Dec 21, 2012. 1 Reply

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Comment by Albert on February 18, 2011 at 0:41

Thanks Joe.

I must differ with you in regards with child-rearing, I think it is extremely important in as far as demographics, but more importantly no civilization has sustained itself with negative or zero population growth. You must ask yourself why am I fighting for democracy and freedom? Why am I opposing the Islamofascists?    

I'll tell you why, democratic and freedom is not ours to give away. It is a gift given to us by our parent and grandparents, who fought and die for it. If we don't hand that most prestigious gift down to our children, we will all stand condemned.

To condemn future generations to, appeasement, subjugation, and death at the hands of these stunted Islamist barbarians, is to horrible to contemplate. It is better to fight now in order for our children not to have too.

On the practical side, having been a parent of 3 children, I know it can be hard for families to cope in normal circumstances. But, this should not hinder participation in events like that put on by EDL. The EDL should organized volunteer creches run by members themselves, and charter buses for family groups, look into car pooling, info could be put up on the EDL website. 

It is important that when the news media record these events they see a celebration of freedom, and the faces of happy young children and families. To many times I have seen the news media distort these demonstrations into "Just a bunch of extreme right wing football yobbos". Give them nothing to hang this stereotype on. More minorities that are threaten by Islamists. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheist, Gays, Christians, Jews, Apostates, Women, this would be a true rainbow coalition. 

Hard core full time organizing commitment need only be a small percentage of the the said organization. Others could give time and money when they could afford it.          



Comment by Alan Lake on February 17, 2011 at 23:18
Joe, have you thought of becoming an MEP? You are starting to just reel off telling arguments at a moments notice. Anyway, thanks for stating everything that I agree with.

regarding the children as an obstacle issue, it is very true - unless you are a muslim. They just leave their wife at home to look after all the babies & kids, then go along to speakers corner to debate with the infidels. No problrm when you have an unpaid domestic servant.

And as regards me, most girls I know are keen to have children, which raises a tricky choice: if I live with them & have kids, then I will disappear from the movement for 12 years our more. yes joe, your observation is correct.
Comment by Joe on February 17, 2011 at 14:50

I agree that there are many fronts in this battle.  But having spent the best part of 12 months closely involved with the EDL, I've seen how parents with small children often find it hardest to find the time and money for demonstrations and action (not that I haven't met some amazingly committed, highly-active and very well-informed people in that situation).  To see my gay friends with kids just wringing their hands with horror at the future they see unfolding but "too busy" to do anything about it makes me think that a more beneficial route is to NOT have people like us (who are increasingly becoming the obvious targets of fundamentalists) filling our time with child-rearing.


I totally concur about the halal thing.  I've read the Koran several times, and each time was struck by the number of occasions where it says they only must not desire non-halal food, but can still eat (e.g. if hungry).  It should definitely be a flank of attack.  There is no reason why there should be any permission for halal food.  


I have the image of Pim Fortuyn as my logo to remind us of how far the "caring" Left will go to make sure that islamisation is neither criticised, discussed or even acknowledged.  The situation in Holland has had a decade to get worse since Pim's assassination. 


Time is of the essence.  And I for one do not believe the muslim population of the UK is "only 4%" as has recently been touted as an official guesstimate (and the 2011 census is going to be the last census).  Muslims are approximately 14% of the prison population -- statistics that successive governments and the media have striven to hide from us.  I'd rather assume that muslims are no more criminal than the rest of us -- and that 14% represents a more accurate reflection of the proportion of muslims in our society. 


My local "Church of England" school is 90% muslim.  The Roman Catholic school I went to until age 16 was amalgamated with 3 other RC schools in the last 30 years.  But even that large RC church is now mostly muslim. 


Those are figures from opposite ends of the country.  There's no way that 4% of the population being muslim could end up dominating CofE and RC schools.

Comment by Albert on February 17, 2011 at 10:50

Thank you Joe for your comments. 

I'm glad my comments are stimulating lateral thinking regarding the Islam problem.

Of course I agree with you entirely that simulating the Gay community to have children is not a silver bullet. But, even if your figures are correct and 1% of the general population are Gay, in a very close contest 1% is a significant number.

To fight Islamification, all groups and minorities, religions and non-religion must not be ignored. Women, Children, Gays, Apostates, and Atheists within the Muslim communities themselves are the most oppressed and are a tremendous resource for the anti-Islamic movement in the West. If they could be turned and supported within the non-Muslim communities, this would greatly inhibit the growth of Islam,(your point number 5).

Obviously, something must be done regarding immigration, Islamic infrastructure, such as Mosques and Madrassas, the breeding ground for Jihadist of the future.  A edited version of the Koran approved by government, Imam that were born within the host country only, all sermons given within the mosque are to be given in the host countries language. Enforcement via CC cameras within Mosques and Madrassas. 

Stop the money trail both inward and outward, you have all ready mentioned Saudi money(inward).

Stop Halal food production(outward). It is not required for Muslim to eat Halal food, it actually says so in the Koran. Halal food industries are a huge benefit for Muslim employment, as non-Muslims are considered unclean. 2% of the profits from the sale of Halal foods go to Muslim charities. Which are fronts for terrorist organizations such as Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yes, involvement of the non-Muslim communities at the grass root level. Education and mobilization. Take out the freedoms your grandfather fought for, and give them a good airing.                

Comment by Joe on February 17, 2011 at 9:07

Albert, that's not the answer.  At most homos make up 1% of the population (my calculation).  And if it comes to a who-can-out-breed-who war, then muslims are likely to win.  The answer has to be 1. a total stop to all muslim immigration (as Tommy Robinson has already said twice on air (and which no journalist has even questioned) 2. a stop to all mosque building 3. an end to all government funding of anything promoting islam 4, an end to all influx of Saudi money to promote islam, 5. a battle for the minds of those muslims who are here (we need funded systems to assist apostates in fear to get new identies, and a system to de-programme muslims out of islam).


An extra 1% of the non-muslim population breeding 3 kids each will be out done by those current 4% of the population who are muslim breeding 4 kids each.  Not to mention that 60% of Pakistanis & Bangladeshis here bring in a spouse from abroad, often accompanied by the spouse's elderly parents.  


Furthermore, from my observations, the vast majority of people involved politically in this fight are either not-yet parents, or are post-parenting age.  What we just need is to get those gay people who are between 18 and 65 involved.  My gay and lesbian friends who have gone down the parenting route are completely in agreement with me about the problems from islamisation, but they are completely preoccupied by their children, and are going to be no use in this battle until those children are adults.


So, it's not a question of us homos bogging ourselves down in child-raising - that still won't win the battle, in fact, it might just slow things down.  


What we need is all those gay people who are too busy having holidays, boozing, socialising, doing macrame or whatever it is they do -- to start getting involved politically.


Comment by Albert on February 17, 2011 at 3:45

It is Time:


Yes, it is time for Gay and Lesbian couples to pull their collective fingers out(no pun intended). They are not doing their non-Muslim heterosexuals brothers and sisters or themselves any favours by remaining childless.

I suggest a Homosexual Fertilization Co-Operative, a place where homosexual women and men can liaison in order to conceive (artificially of course).

Everybody knows the Muslim population demographics are set to explode in the West. This is part of the strategy of Jihad to spread Islam, this is no secret.

The West cannot afford to simply write-off a significant proportion of the population simply because of sexual preference. Gay marriage must be equal to a conventional union under the law.  

Gays are prime target under shariah law, the punishment is death. Populate or perish.             


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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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