The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Kuffarphobia in Indonesia


Kuffarphobia in Indonesia

Untuk Kristen Indonesia menderita kekerasan dan penganiayaan dari fundamentalisme Islam. For Indonesian Christians suffering violence and persecution from Islamic fundamentalism.

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Members: 13
Latest Activity: Nov 24, 2017

Discussion Forum

Christina's story

Started by shiva. Last reply by Alan Lake Aug 27, 2013. 1 Reply


Started by shiva Aug 27, 2013. 0 Replies

It is a Strange Place (Dangdut)

Started by shiva. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 5, 2013. 1 Reply


Started by shiva. Last reply by paul collings May 21, 2012. 3 Replies


Started by shiva. Last reply by iron shanks Feb 26, 2010. 2 Replies


Started by shiva. Last reply by Netcon Feb 15, 2010. 2 Replies

Hushed rape of Timor

Started by shiva Feb 14, 2010. 0 Replies

Death Of A Nation

Started by shiva Feb 12, 2010. 0 Replies

Now the Law

Started by shiva Nov 24, 2009. 0 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Alan Lake on November 24, 2017 at 17:41

Stop ‘virginity tests’ & let women serve their country – HRW to Indonesian military chiefs

Comment by Alan Lake on May 22, 2017 at 6:33

Christian Jakarta governor sentenced to 2 years for ‘blasphemy’ against Islam

Comment by Alan Lake on December 11, 2016 at 19:40

Christian governor of Jakarta to face trial over Islam ‘insult’ allegations

Comment by shiva on June 1, 2015 at 4:33

Anthony This is a response to your post June 19, 2013 at 9:26 I have only just noticed it, as I am trying to catch up what I missed during my absence You give a link that goes to " Why 72 per cent of Indonesians want sharia" based on a scare report from  the Pew Research Center’s The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics, and Society  it concluded that 72 per cent of Muslim Indonesians, including women, prefer the implementation of sharia. The survey included 1,880 Indonesians

That is 1,880 Indonesians out of a population of 255.4 million WOW, because of this very erroneous survey most in the CJM label Indonesia as an Islamic shithole

This is far from the truth.

Just recently, Indonesia had elections, and once again all the islamist parties took a thrashing

Comment by paul collings on May 31, 2015 at 12:27

Hizb ut Tahrir in Indonesia are allowed celebrations.

A whole stadium full.

Comment by Alan Lake on January 5, 2015 at 0:19

No New Year’s fun: Indonesian city bans celebrations under Sharia law — RT News

Comment by paul collings on December 22, 2013 at 14:05

Nothing to see here, especially not intolerance or a clash of civilisations.

Comment by Antony on August 27, 2013 at 6:11
Comment by shiva on August 27, 2013 at 4:57

Alan, Good editing :-)

Comment by Alan Lake on August 26, 2013 at 23:47

Thanks for the corrections Shiva.  I agree, there is a wealth of historical material proving terrible crimes of Islam, so its a bad idea to weaken the case by including unreliable information.  

Having agreed that those photos are not applicable to Islam though, the text commentary is reasonable.  And I also know from Christian friends, of mass rape attacks by Muslims against Chinese Christians in Indonesia.  This was before the prevalence of mobile phones with cameras, so its no surprise that there isn't the same photographic record of it.


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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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