The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

In 2009, Obama went to pay homage to islam at Al Azhar university in Cairo.  There he said that Al Azhar was "a beacon of Islamic learning", and that he would "speak the truth", as the koran supposedly commands, and that he was guided by "what Islam is, not what it isn't". 

Then Obama goes on to say:

The Holy Koran teaches that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind. 

Which is clearly a synopsis of koran 5:32.  And in producing his synopsis, Obama reverses the meaning of koran 5:32.  One of the verses of the koran which famously endorses muslims killing non-muslims, is made to look as if it is a verse which condemns killing.

Those of us who know the koran, know that this synopsis is a half-truth, and the half that is excluded in the paraphrase reverses the meaning produced by the paraphrase.   It is as if Obama had paraphrased the 10 Commandments and said that "the 6th Commandment is 'Thou Shalt Kill' ", and nobody objected to him dropping the word "not" from his paraphrase and his consequent reversal of the meaning.  

Things are so bad in the west, that telling the truth has become a revolutionary act (Orwell).  Despite his high-profile speech in "a beacon of islamic learning", none of the muslims present objected to his distortions, no mainstream journalist, academic or bishop subsequently pointed out that he had in face reversed koran 5:32, which states that muslims can kill those who spread mischief :

if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. 

http://www.alquranverse.com/5/32/Yusuf_Ali

The only way to get from that verse the version which Obama is claiming is true, is by omitting the middle section of that verse, thus making the verse condemn all killing, when it specifically permits killing those who cause "mischief":

if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. 

The only groups who pointed out that Obama was distorting koran 5:32 were the (very marginal) counter jihad groups. http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/82-jabali/65-killing-humanity-ob...

Koran 5:33 goes on to explain what is meant by "mischief" and what the moral islamic punishments are for such "mischief":

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides

http://www.alquranverse.com/5/33/Yusuf_Ali

In 2013, just days after the murder of Lee Rigby, Nick Clegg (Deputy Prime Minister, and leader of a party which supposedly extols "liberty" and "democracy") took Obama's distortion further.  Clegg went so far as to not just repeat Obama's distortion, but to actually claim that he was "repeating a verse from the holy Koran".

Here's the video, where you can see for yourself, that one of the most senior members of the British government, a man supposedly renowned for his education and linguistic ability, lying about the contents of koran 5:32. See for yourself  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22655020

The BBC and other newspapers then quoted what Clegg said, also claiming that it came from the koran.

Clegg cited verse 32 chapter 5 the Koran, which says: "If anyone kills a human being it shall be as though he killed all mankind whereas if anyone saves a life it shall be as though he saved the whole of mankind."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22652340

He also read a verse from the Koran which states: “If anyone kills a human being, it shall be as though he killed all mankind.”

http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/nick_clegg_speaks_out_over_w...

For Obama to perform this (quite deft) distortion, and the world's media and the assembled islamic scholars to say nothing is extraordinary.  For Clegg to up the ante, and actually claim that he is reading from the koran, when no koran on earth contains the sentence he read is something else entirely.  

The LibDem website provides the entire speech, showing the journalists did not mis-hear.  http://www.libdems.org.uk/speeches_detail.aspx?title=London_communi...

Moreover, the LibDem website shows that prominent muslims were present when Nick Clegg reversed the meaning of koran 5:32, to pretend that it denounces all killing.  Whilst claiming that muslims who kill are perverting the koran, Clegg perverted the koran with muslims present.  And there is no record that any of these muslims objected to Clegg's lie (one of the muslims was an imam, two were in Parliament).

Note well: muslims memorise the koran.  They know perfectly well that koran 5:32 does not say what Clegg claims it says. 

Here's the list of those present, many of whom must have known he was lying about that verse being in the koran: 

  • Shadow Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan
  • Conservative whip Lord Tariq Ahmad
  • former Army captain Afzal Amin
  • imam Shaykh Shams ad-Duha Muhammad of Ebrahim College
  • co-chairs of Faith Forum for London, Canon Guy Wilkinson and Leonie Lewis.
  • Colonel Hugh Bodington, Chief of Staff of the Army Headquarters at London District
  • Commander Mak Chishty of the Metropolitan Police
  • Damian Johnson, Chair of the London Assembly
  • Andrew Boff, leader of the Assembly’s Conservative group
  • Jenny Jones, leader of the Green Party Group
  • Stephen Knight, deputy leader of the Liberal Democrat Group
  • Deputy Leader of the House of Commons, Tom Brake.

At least 4 muslims were there, and one of those muslims was a Sheikh (which means that he was the equivalent of a Bishop or ArchBishop). Yet not one of those supposedly loyal and prominent muslims pointed out that Clegg was lying about the contents of koran 5:32.

With a single click on Google, any journalist who wondered how to reconcile islamic terrorism with prominent MPs quoting verses from the koran denouncing violence, could read for themselves whether that quoted verse does say what the prominent MP says it does.  Are we really to believe these 1000s of degree-educated journalists in Britain are too stupid to try and do even 1 minute of research to see if these MPs are lying?  All the reports of what Clegg said referred to the very verse he claimed to be reading from the koran.  A whole decade after 9/11, are we to believe that journalists have still not learned to look up what the koran supposedly says?

How to explain the silence of all those academics up and down the country at our universities?  Oxford, Cambridge, Exeter, Birmingham, Cardiff, Durham, London, etc. have islamic studies departments.  Not one academic used their position of expertise to point out that Clegg was lying about what was in the koran.

How to explain the silence of groups like the Muslim Council of Britain?  How to explain the silence of supposedly extremist preachers like Anjem Choudary or Sheikh Haddad?  How to explain the silence of supposedly moderate preachers like Taj Hargey or Usama Hasan of Quilliam?

How is it that when half the people in Britain think that civil war with muslims is coming, our supposedly moderate muslims are not pointing out to the people of Britain when someone lies about the contents of the koran?  How can we trust any muslim, if they are not going to make a fuss when someone lies about what the koran says about violence and killing?

On what basis is the population of Britain supposed to distinguish between those who seek to subjugate us to islam, and those who believe we have the right to resist such subjugation?

Those who defend islam and exculpate the barbaric attacks by muslims on the people in the west, claim that it is us who stick to the koran who are lying, who are distorting, who are taking things out of context.  When the media, academics, priests, and moderate/extremists muslims allow politicians to lie to the rest of the population about islam, it is clear that the vast majority of people in this society cannot trust any member of the elite.

Another of Clegg's lies in that speech is this: "terrorism has no religion because there is no religious conviction that can justify the kind of arbitrary, savage, random violence that we saw on the streets of Woolwich."  If the most senior Liberal Democrat in Britain had told the truth about what koran 5:32 and 5:33 say, then he'd have educated the audience precisely about the religious conviction that jusified the savage violence we saw on the streets of Woolwich.  

Lee Rigby's savage murder was not random.  The killers had been deliberately targeting lone, unarmed men in the area of the barracks (particularly if any of their clothing was khaki) because they specifically wanted to find a soldier to execute. And they were doing this because they were following the instructions of the koran, the instructions which Clegg saw fit to lie about.

The treachery in the west goes right to the top. And it is clear, that all of the journalists, priests, academics, and muslims are part of the problem. 

Tags: 5:32, clegg, koran, nick

Views: 1218

Replies to This Discussion

Good job he's not a Muslim. He'd have committed blasphemy. Although not when lying for Islam is permitted. Not that I'm suggesting he's a Muslim.

I believe your right on this. I don't believe any of our leaders are so ignorant they can't read a Koran and check that what they're reading is anyway close to being true.

The motive or reasoning for purposely misreading verse's from the Koran can only be guessed at but with very little effort you can find out its a lie. But lets be honest, the people running this country couldn't care less about their lies. They have control of the media and they are not going to get pulled up for lying for Islam.

Old calamity Clegg has got a bit more to worry about anyway. Not doing enough to oust the sex pests within the party seems to be his biggest head ache. Although if it had been a conservative MP I'm sure the media would have been ruthlessly calling for his resignation.

Maybe they don't want to upset the Lib/Dems to much, as I'm sure after the next election they could be playing a part in the Government.   

Mehdi Hasan pulled the same distortion with Koran 5:32, just a day or two before Clegg turned it into an outright lie.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10076096...

Well are we to believe anything Mehdi Hasan says. In a recent Oxford debate against Ann Waters, he ridiculed her argument about one law for all. He said There was no such thing as Sharia law. He said it was a mythical law, and asked her to produce the sharia law book. So twisting the truth shows he could well be a master of Taqqiya.  Or he's never read the Koran and should maybe refrain from acting as a spokesman for Islam.

It was very stupid of her not to go armed with the appropriate props.  She should have had at least a copy of The Reliance of the Traveller.  And the Koran and Ibn Ishaq for good measure.

As we saw in "When Tommy Met Mo", Ansar was desperate to get the koran out of Tommy's hands.

paul collings said:

Well are we to believe anything Mehdi Hasan says. In a recent Oxford debate against Ann Waters, he ridiculed her argument about one law for all. He said There was no such thing as Sharia law. He said it was a mythical law, and asked her to produce the sharia law book. So twisting the truth shows he could well be a master of Taqqiya.  Or he's never read the Koran and should maybe refrain from acting as a spokesman for Islam.

Yes you'd think Ms Waters would have been a bit sharper. I tend to keep a Koran at the very least with me. The only problem is most Muslims don't like us unclean infidels touching one.

When I was in luton one afternoon, one of the lads giving it the Dawa, was most upset when I produced one and started reading from it. He tried to knock it out of my hand, and accused me of lying?

I was moved on by two police officers. For my own safety.  I doubt I'd get way with it today. I doubt the Police go there anymore.



Joe said:

It was very stupid of her not to go armed with the appropriate props.  She should have had at least a copy of The Reliance of the Traveller.  And the Koran and Ibn Ishaq for good measure.

As we saw in "When Tommy Met Mo", Ansar was desperate to get the koran out of Tommy's hands.

paul collings said:

Well are we to believe anything Mehdi Hasan says. In a recent Oxford debate against Ann Waters, he ridiculed her argument about one law for all. He said There was no such thing as Sharia law. He said it was a mythical law, and asked her to produce the sharia law book. So twisting the truth shows he could well be a master of Taqqiya.  Or he's never read the Koran and should maybe refrain from acting as a spokesman for Islam.

The right-wing George Bush beat Obama, Clegg, Hasan to this deceit over the koran opposing killing.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/06/fitzgerald-when-obama-channels-bu...

As Hugh Fitzgerald pointed out in that above piece in 2009.

What reporter, after all, even nearly eight years after the 9/11/2001 attacks, and with thousands of Muslim terrorist attacks carried out, or thwarted, all over the globe against every kind of non-Muslim in every possible setting, knows anything about the Qur”an?

When we come to having our Nuremberg Trials, we can argue the failure of all these journalists amounted to either a conspiracy or criminal negligence.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/10/arab-iranian-poet--peace...

An Arab-Iranian poet has been executed in Iran for “waging war on God” and threatening national security human righ...

Hashem Shaabani was executed in an unidentified prison in late January, the Iran Human Rights Documentation Centre writes.

He had been sentenced to death in July 2012 by the Ahvaz Islamic Revolutionary Court for muharibih (“waging war on God”), sowing corruption on earth, propaganda against the Islamic Republic and acting against national security, it adds.

Perhaps Clegg, the most senior Liberal, the most senior Democrat in Britain would like to point out to the Islamic Republic of Iran, that they have misunderstood koran 5:32 and 5:33.

Those verses can't possibly say that those who spread corruption on earth must be executed.  You tell 'em, senior Liberal Democrat and koran scholar.

Yes, Clegg should go to Iran and tell them himself.

Oh no, what have I done!  I've implied that he should go there and get executed! Now the Leftards will be screaming for my blood because that would be a crime that I would be guilty of, not the Iranians or Islam, if you simply gloss the meaning.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the muslim POTUS looks after his own.

http://pamelageller.com/2014/02/arabic-1-language-spoken-refugees-a...

I'll bet that the persecuted christians of the Middle East don't make up the largest part of the single largest language group to enter the U.S. during Hussain's reign.  And of course - the "moderate muslim" who has been arrested for the attempt to set fire to a gay club containing 750 deluded Seattle gays was one of the members of that language group.  

http://4freedoms.com/group/gays/forum/topics/muslim-terrorist-attac...

Seems all you need to get into the US now is to have some gangster voted to be President, and no matter how incompatible your views are, you get a residency permit.

The URL to the LibDem website page which contained Clegg's speech seems to be broken (funny that, innit?)

So, I found the speech again on their site, and I'm pasting it here for posterity.

London communities celebrate strength and unity at event hosted by Nick Clegg

The Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, today hosted a community event in London where political and religious leaders joined together to show solidarity between people of all faiths and none in the wake of the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich. Timed ahead of the bank holiday weekend and Friday prayers, the event showed communities celebrating their strength and unity in mutual support.

The speakers at the Hugh Cubitt Peabody Centre in Islington were the Deputy Prime Minister, Shadow Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan, Conservative whip Lord Tariq Ahmad, former Army captain Afzal Amin, imam Shaykh Shams ad-Duha Muhammad of Ebrahim College and the co-chairs of Faith Forum for London, Canon Guy Wilkinson and Leonie Lewis.

Also in attendance were Colonel Hugh Bodington, Chief of Staff of the Army Headquarters at London District, and Commander Mak Chishty of the Metropolitan Police, who has been the force’s community liaison for the events in Woolwich. 

Representatives of London’s political leaders included Damian Johnson, Chair of the London Assembly, Andrew Boff, leader of the Assembly’s Conservative group, Jenny Jones, leader of the Green Party Group and Stephen Knight, deputy leader of the Liberal Democrat Group. The local MP Emily Thornberry also took part, along with Deputy Leader of the House of Commons, Tom Brake.

Transcript of the Deputy Prime Minister’s speech

Can I thank you all very, very much for being here and can I thank, particularly, everybody at the Hugh Cubitt Centre, all the volunteers here, everyone from the Peabody operation.  You’ve helped us to organise this at very, very short notice indeed.  
 
It was a suggestion made to me by friends of mine in the London Muslim community just yesterday, that we should get together at a time of obviously heightened anxiety, given the horrific events in Woolwich.  And to be able to gather together like this, given how busy everybody is, is a real tribute to everybody at the centre, and indeed to all of you. 
 
We are represented here in all of the wonderful diversity that we know is modern London: different political parties, different faiths, different communities, representatives from the armed services, from the police.  I really am very, very grateful to you all for being here.  And I hope that – in fact I know that I speak on behalf of everybody here when I say that my heart goes out and my thoughts are with the family and the friends of Drummer Lee Rigby, who as so brutally and savagely killed in Woolwich.
 
I think in many ways, the fact that we’ve come together is much more important than what anyone’s actually going to say at the event because the fact that we’re here together from so many different directions, from so many parts of the diversity that is London is a – sends out a message.  
 
It sends out a very, very simple message of hope over fear, of community over division and that is immensely important. I think that you’ve done all of that and that by coming together in that way, by sending out that clear signal, you really have provided a great service to all of the communities who are asking themselves searching questions in London and across the country today.  
 
Because let’s be clear.  People who inflict such random, savage violence in the name of some entirely warped ideology or some entirely perverted concept of religion in the way that we have seen on our television screens – which has been made all the more unsettling I think, because the individuals concerned dressed, spoke, appeared to all intents and purposes like so many other young Londoners that we might come across every day of the week.  
 
Let’s be under no illusion.  What they want, of course, is to sow that corrosive seed of fear and division.  What they want is for governments and the authorities to overreact in their immediate reaction.  What they want is for communities to turn inwards and away from each other.  What they want, in short, is to spread fear.  
 
Fear is an extraordinarily powerful emotion and when fear takes root, all of us as individuals, we will avert our gaze from someone who we might be fearful of, who we weren’t before.  We might cross the street away from an individual who we’re not so sure about.  We might worry about our children and about our families in a way that we haven’t done before.  
 
It has a very, very corrosive effect on every part of our lives and we have a choice.  We have a choice to either allow that powerful corrosive feeling of fear to seep into every second and minute and hour of our lives or we can make a choice that we’re not going to change our behaviour.  We’re not going to disrupt normal life.  We’re going to continue our life as before.  We’re going to continue to reach out to each other.  We’re going to continue to look people in the eye.  We’re going to continue to be the diverse community that we are, and you have made that choice by coming to this event.  
 
London has made that choice by celebrating this kind of event and it has shown once again how unbeatable London is in the face of this attempt to sow fear, sow division and sow mutual suspicion in our community.  So I want to pay genuine tribute, to each and every one of you for making that choice.  It is a positive choice and is the most powerful dignified reply and rejection of what we saw and what we heard on Wednesday in Woolwich.
 
Finally, before I ask the Deacon and others to speak for themselves, I want to pay special tribute to those amongst you who are leaders and spokespeople of our Muslim communities.  The fact that all of you who’ve spoken out so very clearly and so very cogently and so very quickly to reject it utterly. As the Prime Minister quite rightly said, what we heard from these two individuals was a total unqualified betrayal of Islam, a religion of peace was being distorted, turned upside down and inside out, perverted in the cause of an abhorrent and violent set of intentions from those individuals.  
 
As I heard from someone in a discussion we just had earlier this morning, terrorism has no religion because there is no religious conviction that can justify the kind of arbitrary, savage, random violence that we saw on the streets of Woolwich.  So thank you for speaking out as forcefully as you have done.  Thank you for speaking out as clearly as you have done for a great salvation religion, for your faith, and for the communities in which you live and in which you lead.  
 
And in that spirit I would like to simply conclude by repeating a verse from the holy Quran, verse 32, chapter five. If anyone kills a human being, it shall be as though he killed all mankind, whereas if anyone saves a life it shall be as though he saved the whole of mankind.

Thank you very much.

What a lying skunk.

One thing I found interesting before getting to the final substantive bit, the quote from the Quran, was how many words he used to say practically othing. If you were to try and precis the first part, it would be very hard, because its more like emotional meandering than political dialogue.  I think we shall see more of this, more banal empty speeches, desperately trying to avoid saying anything of substance, because anything of substance, will cause people to think the unthinkable - that a religion can actually be a totalitarian political system, and can thoroughly endorse, and even prescribe, violence.

Anyway, the last substantive bit, which had to be a lie because the truth defeats his narrative, was also rather comic. Since Clegg spent most of his time explaining that the most important thing was simply to 'be together' and that the noises (or words) emitted from people's mouths, apparently didn't matter, they're on the same level as farts and burbs, then the words (of terrorists and everyone) simply don't connote anything.

And even if words did matter, "terrorism has no religion because there is no religious conviction that can justify the kind of arbitrary, savage, random violence that we saw on the streets of Woolwich", so a priori, none of them could be taken as relevant to the killing of Lee Rigby.

Clegg sounds like a man trying in desperation to convince himself, never mind anyone else.

I wonder if it would be possible to get a hard line Ayatollah or suchlike to issue a Fatwa against Clegg?  Misquoting the word of Allah is a serious offence.  

[Watch the Leftists wet their panties because, in their Bizarro upside-down world, I am now responsible for encouraging violence against Clegg]

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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