It takes a nation to protect the nation
This room is for Muslims who try to moderate Islam, i.e. reform it, resist the drift to fundamentalism, or leave it. It also includes threatened sects like the Ahmadiyyas.
Anyone curious as to why Islamic Moderates are not more evident need only look at this room for an explanation - the Moderates get murdered very quickly.
Search Site: http://4freedoms.ning.com/main/search/search?q=Zmoderate+Zapostate
Members: 12
Latest Activity: Aug 13, 2018
The Islamic juggernaut does not take kindly to anyone who stands in its way, whether they be those trying to form a more modern or liberal view of Islam, or those who merely want to maintain a secular state (as in Turkey or Pakistan) separate from encroachment by Islam and Sharia Law .
Theologians like Rashad Khalifa, tried to reform the fundamental texts and interpretation of Islam, and paid with their lives. Secularists like Benazir Bhutto merely tried to stop Islamism taking over the functioning secular democracy. This statist position can also be defended by a non-Muslim in an Islamic country. Apostates reject the teaching of Islam, but generally don't want to take a political stance on the issue. They just want to get on with their own lives without fear of persectuion. All these people are persecuted socially and legally, threatened with violence, and frequently murdered.
Member Quotes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Joe Aug 13, 2018. 3 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Almog. Last reply by Almog Apr 11, 2015. 5 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Netcon. Last reply by Joe Jan 31, 2015. 3 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Joe. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 28, 2014. 3 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Kinana. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 27, 2014. 4 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 2, 2014. 1 Reply 0 Likes
Started by Joe. Last reply by paul collings May 17, 2013. 1 Reply 0 Likes
Started by Joe. Last reply by Antony May 10, 2013. 3 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana May 8, 2013. 3 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Feb 23, 2013. 1 Reply 0 Likes
Started by Kinana. Last reply by Kinana Oct 17, 2012. 1 Reply 0 Likes
Started by shiva. Last reply by paul collings Oct 10, 2012. 2 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 7, 2012. 17 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 16, 2012. 3 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana Jul 13, 2012. 4 Replies 0 Likes
Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by shiva Jul 10, 2012. 1 Reply 0 Likes
Add a Comment
Most Muslims genuinely believe that Islam is wonderful. So any idea that it is possible to convert Muslims in large numbers or to reform Islam at all is pointless. It is very unlikely that Islam will change into something less harmful. It is changing, it is reawakening, it is becoming more fundamental and the fundament of Islam is force, violence and conquest. We cannot fight Islam on Muslim ground, we can only fight it in our countries, by which I mean wipe out every trace of it.
"The individual can change, but Islam cannot."
There is no islam without muslims. They are the hosts which carry this virus. In the UK they are free to leave islam. Every one of them who does not actively oppose islam helps to passively impose islam on the others. And on us.
Lee, i understand your position. Muslims are taught by Islam to have a mind-set and to behave in ways that we would disagree with and even fight. However, i know it is possible for individual Muslims to be ignorant of the teachings of the faith they claim to believe in. For me the distinction between the teachings of Islam and individual Muslims is important. The individual can change, but Islam cannot.
Lee, you might also be interested to know, I've been in conversations together with Alan and with people who know all the "muslim reformers" in the UK intimately. That person told us that not one of these reformers was a muslim - they are all ex-muslims. Yet they pretend to be muslims because
All of this will be revealed in the next 12 months or so.
Welcome to 4 Freedoms!
(currently not admitting new members)
Just fill in the box below on any 4F page to be notified when it changes.
Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them.
At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.
Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.
We need to capture this information before it is removed. The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.
We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.
These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper).
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:
© 2023 Created by Netcon.
Powered by
You need to be a member of Apostate & Reformer Victims of Kuffarphobia to add comments!