The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Kuffarphobia against Apostates and Reformers


Kuffarphobia against Apostates and Reformers

This room is for Muslims who try to moderate Islam, i.e. reform it, resist the drift to fundamentalism, or leave it. It also includes threatened sects like the Ahmadiyyas.

Anyone curious as to why Islamic Moderates are not more evident need only look at this room for an explanation - the Moderates get murdered very quickly.

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Members: 12
Latest Activity: Jul 17

Key Info

The Islamic juggernaut does not take kindly to anyone who stands in its way, whether they be those trying to form a more modern or liberal view of Islam, or those who merely want to maintain a secular state (as in Turkey or Pakistan) separate from encroachment by Islam and Sharia Law .
Theologians like Rashad Khalifa, tried to reform the fundamental texts and interpretation of Islam, and paid with their lives.  Secularists like Benazir Bhutto merely tried to stop Islamism taking over the functioning secular democracy. This statist position can also be defended by a non-Muslim in an Islamic country.  Apostates reject the teaching of Islam, but generally don't want to take a political stance on the issue.  They just want to get on with their own lives without fear of persectuion.  All these people are persecuted socially and legally, threatened with violence, and frequently murdered.

Member Quotes

  • Our naive government brings gangsters from the hell holes of Afghanistan and Pakistan, like the Islamists that killed these couragous women, so the thugs can lord it over us, and make us submit to their specially uniformed tribe - Alan Lake

Discussion Forum

Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed & Gay Friendly Mosques

Started by Joe. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 28, 2014. 3 Replies

Muslim 'Apostate' tortured and executed by ISIS

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 27, 2014. 4 Replies

Taj Hargey - they will probably kill him

Started by Joe. Last reply by paul collings May 17, 2013. 1 Reply

Islam and Violence: the Double Bind

Started by Joe. Last reply by Antony May 10, 2013. 3 Replies

Muslims Against Islamists

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana May 8, 2013. 3 Replies

From The Heart Of A Muslim - by Tawfik Hamid

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 7, 2012. 17 Replies

UK: Muslim bombers target EDL Dewsbury Rally

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana Jul 13, 2012. 4 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Lee on July 17, 2015 at 12:57
Agreed a mean it's only by using extreme measures that this can be solved and I know that mass numbers will never reform so it's back to square one ban Islam and deport anyone who won't reform yes were going back to militant Christianity but what choice do we have at the end of the day Islamic state is providing somewhere for them to go it's not like there is nowhere for them I don't see the problem they want sharia well their a place that provides that know we need to put them their and the European nations need to provide troops to make sure once their in the Islamic state they do not come out it can be done they built the Berlin wall it the same concept yes it costs a fortune and it sounds morally wrong but killing tourists on beaches is wrong to
once your in your in if you try to get out you will be shot am sorry for the people who are trapped their at moment but their nothing anyone can do it's for the greater good in fact prisoner swapping give them who we have for the yazidi families they are holding and build a wall around it put guards on it and shoot to kill
Comment by Tony Ashworth on July 17, 2015 at 12:22
With the aid of a friendly government that would be achievable but unfortunately.....
Comment by Philip Smeeton on July 17, 2015 at 12:17

Most Muslims genuinely believe that Islam is wonderful. So any idea that it is possible to convert Muslims in large numbers or to reform Islam at all is pointless. It is very unlikely that Islam will change into something less harmful. It is changing, it is reawakening, it is becoming more fundamental and the fundament of Islam is force, violence and conquest. We cannot fight Islam on Muslim ground, we can only fight it in our countries, by which I mean wipe out every trace of it. 

Comment by Tony Ashworth on July 17, 2015 at 12:11
If great numbers of them started to reform then that would be a cloak for the ones who didn't. They would use it as a guise and still commit atrocities. If Islam wasn't an ideology of lies and deceit then I'd go with that idea myself Lee but bollocks to them all, it's not safe enough. The war has started, we need to finish it. I'm not waiting for thousands up on thousands of untrustworthy Islamics to start telling us they've changed their mind. Sod that.
Comment by Lee on July 17, 2015 at 10:44
A lot of influential people have said let these muslims go who want to live in the Islamic state and I agree in fact I go a step further forcefully send them if they don't convert to Christianity
Isis at the end of the day govern Islam by sharia this is what Muslims want so send them to their utopia it's a logical answer that will stop ethnic Cleansing
we just have to tighten our borders and make sure that no one from the Islamic state ever get back into the UK as they are extremely dangerous
It's extreme I know but their is only one other solution ????????reform or go that's it
Comment by Joe on July 17, 2015 at 1:12

"The individual can change, but Islam cannot."

There is no islam without muslims. They are the hosts which carry this virus. In the UK they are free to leave islam. Every one of them who does not actively oppose islam helps to passively impose islam on the others.  And on us.

Comment by Lee on July 16, 2015 at 14:32
Individuals can change yes i agree I watched a women last night who was being interviewed she was Isis police she admitted to beating and tortureing innocent people let's have it right she more than likely killed people but hasn't mentioned that oh but she changed know she seen the error of her ways tell you what love their s 50,000 a year in benefits and don't worry about it
like a said if this is the way we deal with war criminals then Winston Churchill was a Cunt and all the Nazis that were jailed and executes after the war well we owe them some compensation and an apologie
I agree with Joe Christians would not stand by Christianity this day n age if we behaved that way it's fucking diabolical as soon as something bad happens it's oh that's not Islam if a man punches some one in a football stadium he's a football hooligan ie he is representing football
thesa pricks kill in the name of Islam and sharia law so their representing Islam end of
Let me put it like this the German population stood by and watched the Nazis murder 6 million Jews only a small percentage .0001 probably actually helped the Jews
these good Muslims if that s what we call them would act in the same way as the German population ww2 standing buy and watching atrocities happen your just as bad why coz you were scared so they didn't tell Nazis were Jew were hiding
the French resistance wernt scared
sorry mate you ask a yazidi would they trust a Muslim ?????? They all scum and their everywhere if a sound like a preaching hate am sorry but what am I expected to say after all this shit of them
at least am honest and admit a preaching hate unlike them luring manipulative snakes in the grass murdering rapist child molestering fucking roaches
Comment by Kinana on July 16, 2015 at 13:22

Lee, i understand your position.  Muslims are taught by Islam to have a mind-set and to behave in ways that we would disagree with and even fight.  However, i know it is possible for individual Muslims to be ignorant of the teachings of the faith they claim to believe in.  For me the distinction between the teachings of Islam and individual Muslims is important.  The individual can change, but Islam cannot.

Comment by Joe on July 16, 2015 at 9:38

Lee, you might also be interested to know, I've been in conversations together with Alan and with people who know all the "muslim reformers" in the UK intimately.  That person told us that not one of these reformers was a muslim - they are all ex-muslims. Yet they pretend to be muslims because

  1. they will be killed if they are honest 
  2. they are getting paid to pretend to be muslims
  3. no other muslims will listen to them if they are known to have left islam

All of this will be revealed in the next 12 months or so.

Comment by Lee on July 16, 2015 at 0:43
Exactly that Joe I for one would step away from Christianity if people were co.muting atrocities in it name in this day and age i wouldn't try and defend it in the least peace loving religion what love has it shown anyone its a joke if you call yourself a Muslim and follow Islam you are accountable by proxy raping women selling slaves wtf I just watched escaping Isis am so angry would have no problem executing members of Isis myself
our government worries about people from England who go to Isis once you go to Isis you are the enemy you are a war criminal end of how many times have we heard war criminals say I was just following orders it's not a defence if it was we wouldn't have ever found one single Nazi guilty of war crimes
these people are going Isis then wanting to come back because they don't like
but while they were their they killed raped tortured and beaten innocent people in the name of Allah and Islam but they still continue to practice being muslim surely after witnessing what they say they have they would surely renounce their faith
smells to me my advice be weary of every single last o e of em
poor yazidis speechless

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Expenditure
The government can spend money in any way it wants  - except one where the debt burden passes across generations (20 years)
4. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)

An additional Freedom from Religion may be deduced from equal application of the law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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