The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Apostate & Reformer Victims of Kuffarphobia

Information

Apostate & Reformer Victims of Kuffarphobia

This room is for Muslims who try to moderate Islam, i.e. reform it, resist the drift to fundamentalism, or leave it. It also includes threatened sects like the Ahmadiyyas.

Anyone curious as to why Islamic Moderates are not more evident need only look at this room for an explanation - the Moderates get murdered very quickly.

Search Site: http://4freedoms.ning.com/main/search/search?q=Zmoderate+Zapostate
Members: 12
Latest Activity: Jul 17, 2015

Key Info

The Islamic juggernaut does not take kindly to anyone who stands in its way, whether they be those trying to form a more modern or liberal view of Islam, or those who merely want to maintain a secular state (as in Turkey or Pakistan) separate from encroachment by Islam and Sharia Law .
Theologians like Rashad Khalifa, tried to reform the fundamental texts and interpretation of Islam, and paid with their lives.  Secularists like Benazir Bhutto merely tried to stop Islamism taking over the functioning secular democracy. This statist position can also be defended by a non-Muslim in an Islamic country.  Apostates reject the teaching of Islam, but generally don't want to take a political stance on the issue.  They just want to get on with their own lives without fear of persectuion.  All these people are persecuted socially and legally, threatened with violence, and frequently murdered.

Member Quotes

  • Our naive government brings gangsters from the hell holes of Afghanistan and Pakistan, like the Islamists that killed these couragous women, so the thugs can lord it over us, and make us submit to their specially uniformed tribe - Alan Lake

Discussion Forum

Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed & Gay Friendly Mosques

Started by Joe. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 28, 2014. 3 Replies

Muslim 'Apostate' tortured and executed by ISIS

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Sep 27, 2014. 4 Replies

Taj Hargey - they will probably kill him

Started by Joe. Last reply by paul collings May 17, 2013. 1 Reply

Islam and Violence: the Double Bind

Started by Joe. Last reply by Antony May 10, 2013. 3 Replies

Muslims Against Islamists

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana May 8, 2013. 3 Replies

From The Heart Of A Muslim - by Tawfik Hamid

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 7, 2012. 17 Replies

UK: Muslim bombers target EDL Dewsbury Rally

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana Jul 13, 2012. 4 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Joe on July 15, 2015 at 23:45

If christians across the west had been doing the kinds of things muslims have been doing these past 30 years, the vast majority would have abandoned christianity in shame - in fact, they'd be calling for it to be banned. But with muslims we see none of this.  There are so few ex-muslims, and the few there are mostly remain hidden, that we can disregard them.

Like Lee, I think muslims are only separable from islam conceptually. In practice, it is they who implement islam (to a greater or lesser extent).

There are so few "muslim reformers" that they are no more than what is known as "noise" in statistics i.e. they are found in such small numbers that they should be considered a sampling error.

Even though Al Banna & Mawdudi & Khomeini were calling for jihad between 1920 and 1980, we saw no muslim jihad in the west then because they were so few in number.  Now that the UK is (officially) 5% muslim, we have approx 500 of them convicted of terrorism. Indeed, there are far more muslims convicted of terrorism than ex-muslims & muslim reformers combined.

Comment by Lee on July 15, 2015 at 17:49
This is my problem I can't differentiate the person from the ideology
I was actually talking to a guy about politics issues to do with the nhs to be exact
I was in the sauna there were some foreigners their middle eastern possibly Muslim
I referred to myself as ethnic English a few older guys eyebrows raised but they agreed
we are know outnumbered its only a matter of time
If any muslim person has/is being/been oppressed or subjected to violonce by his Faith why still consider yourself a part of that Faith
I will never trust any of them Alan the time for sympathy and mercy is over they night the hand that feeds them they need to pick a side all this I want to reform unless their fighting along the peshmurga a don't believe them mate if their prepared to follow their faith after what Isis are doing in the name of it then they should defend it
Comment by Alan Lake on July 15, 2015 at 17:34

Probably not, but that's not a problem.  This room is for the protection of Muslims who are victims of Islam, because they try to leave it or reform it, just like all the other victim rooms.  It makes the point that its the ideology which is the problem, not the person.  So if someone abandons the fascist and discriminatory ideology of Islam, we welcome them back into the fold of humanity that supports equal human rights, and promote their protection.

Comment by Lee on July 15, 2015 at 15:40
Is anyone in this group Muslim????
Comment by Philip Smeeton on November 15, 2014 at 16:09

Shiites. Also on the Sunni death list.

"As long as they have support, as long as they have funding, as long as the idea is there, how can you stop them?"

http://news.yahoo.com/shiites-fear-deadly-bigotry-spreads-shores-05...

The Islamists cannot be stopped, only isolated or executed. Like all other sadistic, psychopathic, homicidal maniacs.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on October 12, 2014 at 14:03

An example of Muslim reasoning and skill at playing the role of victim:

http://prophetrejectors.wordpress.com/929-at-tauba-of-quran-doesnt-...

Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” S. 9:29 Y. Ali

This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives.  It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only thosenon-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states.  So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.

JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING

Coming back to the verse, now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism? Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get! For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose tothe Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually burn their asses out to protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands. Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented.  Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on October 12, 2014 at 13:55

Take a look at chapter two, the cow, and see what you can make of it.

I know there is another passage somewhere that says that Muslims are not supposed to misinterpret his words, but I can't find it.

2:78 And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming.

2.99 And We have certainly revealed to you verses [which are] clear proofs, and no one would deny them except the defiantly disobedient.

2:106 We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?  (He seems to be contradicting himself here).

The art of being a prophet is to make the message mystical and to give nonsense the appearance of meaning.

Comment by paul collings on October 12, 2014 at 8:34

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So, what are ISIS doing wrong?

Comment by paul collings on October 12, 2014 at 8:29

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Comment by Alan Lake on October 11, 2014 at 17:51

Thanks Philip!  I've been looking for that proving Quran quote for a while :-)

 
 
 

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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