The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Slavery Victims

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Slavery Victims

Any ideology which accepts the use of slavery, denies the 4 freedoms. This room covers such use, upto the present day.

Search Site: http://4freedoms.ning.com/main/search/search?q=Zslavery
Members: 14
Latest Activity: on Saturday

Key Info

Many people are unaware of the pivotal role in the slave trade played by Muslim merchants that brought the slaves to the coast for sale, and are similarly unaware that slavery was still practised by several Islamic states well into the 20th century.  White slaves were even captured by Muslim raiders from the coasts of Europe and Britain and taken back to the Middle East. Indeed, there was a defined process of ransom for recovering those who were well enough connected. Slavery is codified in the Islamic scriptrures, and is still practised even today in Sudan, under the authority of those texts.

The Islamic Slave Trade:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL247AC74149E07F5A

Discussion Forum

Arabs and the Slave Trade

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 21. 17 Replies

CNN: Slavery's Last Stronghold

Started by Joe. Last reply by Joe Nov 14, 2014. 1 Reply

Sex Slaves Market and Harem

Started by Indoeuropean. Last reply by Joe Aug 7, 2013. 1 Reply

Overview: Slavery, Islam and White Guilt

Started by Joe. Last reply by paul collings Aug 4, 2013. 1 Reply

Slave Chains

Started by shiva. Last reply by Alan Lake Aug 9, 2012. 1 Reply

Comment Wall

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Comment by Philip Smeeton on July 24, 2015 at 19:45

Spiked article:

It shows how important it is to get your facts right, or to possess the well-documented facts that demolish arguments and accusations.

The Spiked article shows that people are becoming aware and responding to the bullying. It is an uphill fight, but not so long ago ago we did not even have a voice.

This stuff about being ashamed of ancestors is nonsense we have thousands of ancestors, everyone's ancestors did something or other or nothing in particular. We have 16 great great grandparents and each of them had 16. We can all theoretically trace our ancestry back to hundreds of direct bloodline ancestors, just a few hundred years ago.

Poor old Cumberbatch not only did he have to apologise for saying that he had coloured friends, now his ancestors are evil. I believe it is acceptable to say "people of color" in America? Would we hold the children of Himmler responsible for what Himmler did?

Or, in the case of Dawkins, if I have an alleged immoral ancestor am I disqualified to debate morality; I would have to be thoroughly immoral myself in person to be held in contempt. I doubt there is a person on this planet that does not have an immoral ancestor. Remembering that what is deemed immoral now, may not have been deemed immoral in the past.

 ‘very few towns or even villages in Britain have no historical connections at all with slave ownership’.

You might just as well say that very few capitalists in the past did not exploit child labour, what would be your point?, what is your point? there is no point; the intention is only to shame people with moral condemnation. This makes me very angry, as does all injustice.

Is this inverse racism, racism against whites, Europeans?, it certainly is if the Arab slaving is not mentioned or for that matter the slaves of any other race at any point in history.

"Those who read history backwards in order to demonstrate their moral superiority over the behaviour of people in the past actually evade the question of how to gain moral clarity in relation to the challenges facing society today." Exactly, wouldn't they be better employed condemning and combatting ISIS and Islam. And establishing a society where everyone that is wronged receives justice.

The wars are part of the past and only wrong in retrspective, Wars are what forged and defended nations. If we do not fight and resist, did not fight and resist, we would all (our ancestors) have been made slaves by those that have a different set of morals. Nations that do not resist or are weak are enslaved or annihilated. Some wars were necessary, or unavoidable, even desirable. It is pointless to blame ancestors. We are no more in control of events than they were. Why is the world not perfect now? It may never be, human nature being what it is. 

Our ancestors have achieved much that we can be proud of and that we benefit from today. Honour your ancestors they made you what you are, and what you do with the life that they gave you is up to you. At least try to be an honest person and tell the truth and have respect for fact.

Comment by Alan Lake on July 24, 2015 at 18:29

Antony, from that article on Slavery on Spiked, some brilliant comments from Michael Mugal.  I note that no-one dared contradict him :-)


One thing must always be remembered about the slave trade is that we bought all the slaves on an open market we had to pay the African slave owners the full market price for our slaves or they would have gone back in the tribal market and sold off to other Africans to work the gold, copper, or salt mines or to become domestic ( they call them house boys or girls in Africa today ) and agricultural slaves almost every tribal group had their own slaves.
On average we must have paid of between £5 and £50 per slave pumping around £200 million into Africa for the slaves we bought in ( either in goods or cash) so what did Africa do with this money? we industrialised with the profits we made, changed the world,
With reference to our industrialisation when the American slave owners came to the UK to see now we processed the cotton they sold us, they were absolutely horrified at the conditions that prevailed in our factories for the workers ( remember it was 1834 before children were stopped working less than 10 hours a day.
They said they would never treat their slaves as we treated our workers as they were valuable the British worker was disposable and could do any dangerous job, the slaves in general were never sent down the mines,
We must remember the European didn't entered Sub Sahara Africa(besides the Cape) till the mid 19th c Livingstone helped open Africa up 40yrs after the UK slave trade ended and Mungo Parks was one of the Ist travellers inland alone, in the very late 18th c.and was himself enslaved.
I make no apologises for the slave trade what so ever but isn't it about time that the Western World started talking about the Arab slave trade they took 18 million slaves and we are still counting.
There are said to be more slaves in Africa today than the Europeans ever took out.
and those African leaving today are dying at a higher % than those on the slave ships .

All this business is a rod to beat our backs with to denigrate the European in the eyes of the African, and as neither the BBC or any of our papers mention the Arab slave trade it elates the likes of ISIS in the eyes of the Africans 
Balance we need balance in reporting.
The Africans were not the only people in this world who were made slaves as we seem to think today, almost every country in this world had slaves.
20% of the worlds population were slaves in the 18th century,

Comment by Alan Lake on July 24, 2015 at 17:37

Here's a tourist book from 1833, casually discussing slaves and slavery in Constantinople.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27484/27484-h/27484-h.htm

And to think that after the West liberated that land conquered by the slavers of Islam, we let it stay under their jackboot.  Our people have a serious deficiency in history, over here in the West.

Comment by Antony on July 24, 2015 at 17:03

Turning slavery into the West's original sin ; http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/turning-slavery-into-t...

Comment by Joe on June 2, 2015 at 18:43

Here's a tourist book from 1833, casually discussing slaves and slavery in Constantinople.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27484/27484-h/27484-h.htm

Comment by Antony on February 24, 2015 at 11:09
Comment by Antony on December 21, 2014 at 17:32
Comment by Joe on December 19, 2014 at 9:31

2 Mohammedans (named "Mohammed" too) in Oldham are being prosecuted for keeping a bunch of Slovakian men and women as slaves.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/uk-muslims-kept-slave-workers-in-...

Comment by Alan Lake on December 8, 2014 at 18:46

The Economist: Jihadists boast of selling captive women as concubines

THE holy book is clear about what to do when you capture a city: “Put to the sword all the men in it”. As for the women and children, “You may take these as plunder for yourselves.” This is pretty much the advice that the fighters of Islamic State (IS) seem to have followed in the Sinjar area of northern Iraq, peopled largely by members of the Yazidi faith, that the jihadists seized last month. Reports by the UN and independent human-rights groups suggest that the invaders executed hundreds of Yazidi men and kidnapped as many as 2,000 women and children.

Any doubt as to the fate of these captives was dispelled by the latest issue of IS’s glossy English-language online magazine, Dabiq. An article titled “The Revival of Slavery Before the Hour” details religious justifications for reintroducing a practice that ended in all but a few Muslim countries more than a century ago. It claims not only that the Koran, the sayings of the prophet and traditional Islamic law all endorse the enslavement of infidel women captured in wartime, but that the abandonment of this right has caused sin to spread; men are easily tempted to debauchery when denied this “legal” alternative to marriage.

Better yet, the article grimly enthuses, the prophet himself foretold that one of the signs of the Hour—the end of the world—was when “the slave girl gives birth to her master.” This obviously means that concubines are needed to breed soldiers for jihad. Therefore, explains the writer, the victorious warriors of Sinjar divided the Yazidi women and children among themselves, “after one fifth of the slaves were transferred to the Islamic State’s authority as khums”, ie, the share of booty surrendered to early Muslim commanders.

The fastidious theologians of IS are right in some respects. Technically speaking, the syncretic Yazidi faith may be regarded by Islam as heathen, denying its adherents the protections that Christians and Jews—fellow “people of the book”—should enjoy. And it is true, too, that Islamic scripture, although vague in many matters, is specific about slavery, including such questions as whether sex is permitted. In recent times Muslim rebels in Sudan as well as in Nigeria have used such arcane justifications to excuse enforced concubinage.

Yet the fact is that, like members of most faiths, the vast majority of Muslims have pragmatic concerns about hyper-literal interpretations. Mainstream Muslim clerics, citing competing verses and traditions that praise the freeing of slaves as a virtuous act, often describe Islam’s abandonment of slavery as a sign of its adaptability to modern times. Besides, imagine if Christians and Jews still followed the letter of the Bible, which is, incidentally, the source of the passage at the top of this article. The verse (Deuteronomy 20:10-20) also prescribes that in case of capturing a city from the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites or Jebusites, the victors should “utterly destroy them” and “save alive nothing that breatheth”.

http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21625870-jihad...

Comment by Antony on November 23, 2014 at 17:05
 

Members (14)

 
 
 

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Expenditure
The government can spend money in any way it wants  - except one where the debt burden passes across generations (20 years)
4. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)

An additional Freedom from Religion may be deduced from equal application of the law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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