The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Theology


Fightback by Theology

For discussion of 4 Freedoms issues in theology - Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.

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Location: Kinana
Members: 52
Latest Activity: on Friday

Key Info

  • A phobia is defined as an irrational fear of something. To fear Islam is not irrational, for the very nature of Islam is irrational - Danny Jeffrey
  • It seems that Western Christians can scarcely contain their indifference to the persecution of the Coptic Christians - Heather Gilbert

Discussion Forum

Collective Punishment

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Feb 10. 1 Reply

Discussing the Texts of Islam

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 8, 2017. 1 Reply

Maajid Nawaz on Islam vs Islamism?

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Joe May 11, 2017. 13 Replies

Apartheid in Life and in Death

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Kinana Mar 15, 2017. 2 Replies

Ahmadiyya Muslims

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Kinana Nov 27, 2016. 2 Replies

Quran 9.5: qualified or not?

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana Jun 12, 2016. 24 Replies

The Sunni Theory of Government

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Feb 8, 2016. 5 Replies

Colour coding the Koran

Started by ECAW. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 2, 2015. 20 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Alan Lake on Friday

Robert Spencer: why fundamentalist Muslims kill and enslave Christians:

Comment by Antony on March 5, 2018 at 9:36

Religion in the USA debate ;

Comment by Philip Smeeton on February 24, 2018 at 17:41

Islam is of course a product of the mind of Mohammed (influenced by the culture he existed in). Just as all religions are the product of the imaginations of human beings. Fiction is devoutly and fanatically believed to be true and wise. Religious people have half the intellect of an agnostic (I'll believe it when I see it). All systems of belief are constructed, and do not correspond to fact and reality. Believe nothing unless it is capable of being proven to be true.

Comment by Alan Lake on February 23, 2018 at 21:29
Comment by Philip Smeeton on February 17, 2018 at 10:18

My best "ally" is the Muslim terrorist. Had all Muslims been nice and behaved well they could have taken over unopposed. Now thanks to the Islamists more and more politicians are demanding a stop to immigration and the deportation of migrants. Fortunately Islam is an evil creed that is unacceptable. Crime and terror and uncertainty will bring the "far-right" into power (I hope). There is something nice and tidy and satisfying about the Nation State. Liberal-Socialist and Christian thinking is flawed. Very attractive and noble in theory and morally unassailable, but in practice unjust and destructive; rendering us defenseless and denying us our basic instinct of self-preservation. I am entitled to and deserve a good life even though others are in a deprived state. I can lend a helping hand but not to the dgree that my well-being is threatened. How pathetic and evil is the doctrine that- "I can not in good conscience enjoy my well-deserved comfort while another human being is suffering or not enjoying my standard of living. This is such utter and absolute nonsense. Reminds me of Blair saying that he could not "in good conscience" not go to war against Saddam. God! I hate moralizing morons. Do not knowingly cause harm, is the only morality worth heeding.

Comment by Alan Lake on February 16, 2018 at 22:36

Good God, only about 20 years ago, and it seems like another epoch, when the Independent far from pushing the Islamic agenda, was warning against it.

Comment by Kinana on February 16, 2018 at 13:54

I highlight this essay because it is from 1995 and in a mainstream publication!

But who was listening back then.  Since then, many terror attacks closer to home are waking people up and they are asking: why?  I fear more suffering and terror is required to truly rouse the populace in Europe.

"What is going on today in the Muslim world is not the advent of some aberrant thing called Islamic fundamentalism but a revival of Islam itself - the real thing - which Western ascendancy and Westernised post-Muslim elites no longer have the capacity to muffle and control. The jihad is back."

Comment by Philip Smeeton on January 26, 2018 at 20:08

Differences in belief.

Religion/belief has to be agreed upon to be a personal individual matter.
It is only by thinking as an individual and egoist that we can determine what sort of people/group we can belong to and feel at home in and with. That what you believe in is what is true to you and suits you and your needs. We have to agree within the group what the groups morality, laws and needs are and must be. We have to learn from nature that everything evolves and that nothing lasts forever.
Logic, reason, reality and fact have to be factored in.
I am a nationalist, atheist, agnostic and racist because this suits my personal needs; the way I want the world and my way of life to be.
What we are fighting against is anyone that will force belief and way of life on us. I will fight alongside anyone that believes in the rights of the individual and that no one has a right to harm or command another.
It has to be understood that each person has their own version of the truth. Blind faith in one version of the truth that is regarded to be the eternal and only version of the truth is in all ways wrong and is illogical.

Comment by Antony on January 26, 2018 at 17:23
Comment by Antony on December 31, 2017 at 21:49

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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