The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Theology


Fightback by Theology

For discussion of 4 Freedoms issues in theology - Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.

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Location: Kinana
Members: 52
Latest Activity: Oct 8

Key Info

  • A phobia is defined as an irrational fear of something. To fear Islam is not irrational, for the very nature of Islam is irrational - Danny Jeffrey
  • It seems that Western Christians can scarcely contain their indifference to the persecution of the Coptic Christians - Heather Gilbert

Discussion Forum

Discussing the Texts of Islam

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 8. 1 Reply

Apartheid in Life and in Death

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Kinana Mar 15. 2 Replies

Ahmadiyya Muslims

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Kinana Nov 27, 2016. 2 Replies

Quran 9.5: qualified or not?

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Kinana Jun 12, 2016. 24 Replies

The Sunni Theory of Government

Started by Joe. Last reply by Alan Lake Feb 8, 2016. 5 Replies

Colour coding the Koran

Started by ECAW. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 2, 2015. 20 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by paul collings on September 19, 2012 at 11:01


I have a question which can be answered yes or no if anyone wants, but i would prefer an explaination.

The Qur'an is written in Arabic, as are the hadiths. To understand islam properly you need to be able to read and understand Arabic.

All the Qur'ans that have been written in other languages, which we keep being told don't really explain the word of mohhamhead, and unless we can read Arabic we will understand them,(unless we have them explained by a trained imam) arn't these Qur'ans blasphemous.

If the word of Allah is misunderstood or written in such a way as to cause confusion, wouldn't that make all foriegn language Qur'ans false holy books? Shouldn't they all be burnt?

Comment by Kinana on September 16, 2012 at 0:35


I have been warning about Islam for a number of years now. We have a saying in Persian that the way you take your first step, points your path for the rest of your journey. To elucidate this, please allow me to elaborate and give a brief account of Islam.

Islam’s very first step was that of violence aimed at decimation of any people that stood in its path of conquest. It all started with Muhammad
 when his own Quraysh tribe chased him out of his hometown of Mecca. He was a troublemaker that earned the “crazed poet” epithet. He escaped from Mecca and settled in Medina where a large tolerant Jewish community lived. There he found enough peace to start his campaign of gathering a bunch of thugs with the promise of booty in this world as well as eternal pleasures of a sensual paradise if people followed his edict.

The rest is history. One of the very first things he did was to turn on the Jews of Medina – an easy and convenient target to kill, loot and enslave. Being amply rewarded for this thuggery, his followers expanded their range. To this day, the goal is the same. Destroying any and all people who refuse to surrender everything they are and have to this creed of savagery and slavery.
Amil Imani
Comment by Kinana on August 11, 2012 at 23:59

Mo Farah, i.e. Mohamed Farah, born in Somalia, is the two time Olympic winner of the 10000 and 5000 metre race.  For some reason his full name ‘Mohammed’ was never mentioned on the BBC, that I heard anyway.

‘In an interview with Emel magazine, he said: “You've got to believe in God.  Everything happens for a reason, so you shouldn't get wound up. I think the way I am, the way I'm chilled out, has a lot to do with being Muslim and having faith.

It also says in the Qur'an that you must work hard in whatever you do, so I work hard in training and that's got a lot to do with being successful. It's doesn't just come overnight, you've got to train for it and believe in yourself; that's the most important thing.“

…Abdi Kadir Ahmed, a  Somali community worker in Camden, north London, said: "Mo Farah is incredibly important to Somalis in Britain. He shows what we can do, that we are integrating into British society and can achieve great things. It sends a very strong message to our youth that they don't have to be in the headlines because of crime or low achievement. It is a twisted image already and Mo helps us to counter that."

Comment by Alan Lake on July 29, 2012 at 10:37
Comment by Alan Lake on July 10, 2012 at 7:26
Comment by Kinana on June 23, 2012 at 13:57

'I have reviewed and criticized Irshad Manji's work before. Although she never says so explicitly in her book, I get the impression that Manji largely agrees with the mantra that "Islam is whatever Muslims make of it." I don't share this view. Why do those who behead Buddhist teachers in Thailand, burn churches in Nigeria, persecute Hindus in Pakistan or blow bombs in the London subway always "misunderstand" Islamic texts? Why don't they feel this urge to kill people after reading about, say, Winnie the Pooh?'

Fjordman August 21, 2008

Comment by Kinana on April 26, 2012 at 11:39

thanks to Dajjal for this info

Comment by Dajjal 

Change happens! Web site changes break old links and new resources are discovered.  USC-MSA, now called CMJE, made changes which broke old links.  The URLGenerater utility has been updated and a new alternative site added. went down and stayed down.  The UrlGenerator now links to Islam-Universe instead.  You can't find it with Google, use Bing to search for it or go to and open the Resources for Bloggers page to find it.  

Sunan Ibn Maja & Sunan an-Nisa'i are early compilations of Islamic law.  They are five volume sets, the Jihad info is in Vol. 4.

Ibn Sa'd's collection is another old one with some interesting stuff. This site belongs to a Dutch Muslim. Google Translate handles it quite well and most of the ahadith are in English.

Comment by Joe on March 29, 2012 at 15:27

How not to conduct a debate.  

This is a debate between Eric Alan Bell (the leftist film-maker who finally dropped his islamophilic blinkers), and Nadir Ahmed.  It is pathetic the way Nadir Ahmed was able to fire off a string of lies, and then push Robert Spencer's buttons to unsettle him.  Robert, get your ego out of the way.  In fact, Spencer shouldn't even have been allowed to speak on the show.  I'm sure that Bell was good enough to argue against Ahmed.

I would think very carefully about selecting Spencer for a debate after this.  I guess all the constant repetition that he is running away from debates with people might just rile him.  Maybe Nadir wouldn't have adopted that stance if Bell hadn't been so insulting from the get-go, and if Glazov hadn't stacked the deck by having Spencer there too.

I gave up after 20 mins when Spencer's ego made an appearance.  If there's more that's worth listening to after, let me know :)

Comment by Kinana on January 16, 2012 at 18:36

Dear all

I share a letter below I wrote re an article about working with Muslims on the issue of preventing abortions via the UN  --  ‘U. N. bureaucrats, hungered for a right to abortion that would require nations to allow for the unrestricted killing of their unborn babies.’

Found here:

My letter:

My take on this is

  1. it is good to prevent abortions
  2. it is good to work with others to achieve this goal
  3. it is also necessary to keep your eyes wide open and know who you are working with!

Islam teaches that every child born is a Muslim and is led astray by non-Muslim parents and society.  Also the more Muslims in the population the sooner Sharia law will be implemented and imposed on Non-Muslims. 

Here are just two quotes of many that I could share:

“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”
– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN

Mullah Krekar, a refugee from northern Iraq and living in Norway said in 2006: “Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes.” Another translation says: 'We will take over Europe because we Muslims multiply like mosquitoes.'

So yes, work with Muslims to save unborn children but know that some Muslims do this in order to have enough ‘troops’ to bring about a Muslim dominated society.  Islam teaches that non-Muslims are only good as a source of labour and wealth, in other words, as servants/slaves to Muslims.

Comment by Kinana on January 9, 2012 at 18:23

an excellent source for all things re Islamic scriptures

with an excellent search engine too.


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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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