The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Does anyone know anything about this (from the FT on 10 Oct 2011)?


"But Turkey’s regional role is not all positive. As he becomes more confident, Mr Erdogan is also becoming more willing to court confrontation. (That was mirrored recently by his bodyguards, when they beat up members of the UN security staff in New York.)"


And how about this gem, from the perfect example of a democratic Muslim state?

"However the backlash against the alleged coup plot has become so widespread that it has swept up many people who are probably innocent of any wrongdoing – but who now languish in jail, awaiting trial or in, some cases, charges. It is not just military people who have been arrested. According to the International Press Institute, there are now considerably more journalists in prison in Turkey than in China. In Istanbul recently I watched a rally by journalists who were supporting their imprisoned colleagues. This is not something that would be tolerated in Beijing. But there is no doubt, talking to Turkish journalists, that they are now operating in a climate of fear."

Tags: Erdogan's, FT:, Security, Staff!, UN, beat, bodyguards, up

Views: 117

Replies to This Discussion


This is the video. dosn,t explain much.


Certainly seems dangerous to be a journalist in turkey. There is a lot of info on the net about it, so wheres media reports on the subject in britian.

Its just more proof of politics running the media. Nothing can be reported that shows any islamic country in a bad light.


There was a piece done  on the sultan knish blog about the changing of the millitary leaders, and the arrest of people opposed to edogan. I,ll look for it later, i have a date with a pint i must keep.

Thanks for the video Paul.  The final statement smells of cover up.

How much do you bet that the UN guards get reprimanded?

How much do you bet that in future nobody dares challenge any action of Erdogan or his guards?

Thats how the gangster mind works.  Cause an incident where somebody gets roughed up or hurt.  Scream innocence at the top of your lungs.  Get your apology and statement of "we have resolved our 'mis-understanding'".  Then know that those around you won't dare try enforce their authority again.

Bingo!  You've just usurped their authority.


Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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