The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Kuffarphobia in Turkey


Kuffarphobia in Turkey

Türk Hıristiyan ülke olarak ayrımcılık acı küçülen topluluk için laiklik den fişleri

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Members: 16
Latest Activity: on Tuesday

Key Info

Discussion Forum

The Armenian Genocide: A Complete History

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Antony Jun 28, 2017. 3 Replies

Erdogan: Europe's favourite gangster

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 23, 2017. 6 Replies

The Fall of Constantinople / Istanbul

Started by Charles Martel. Last reply by Kinana May 31, 2013. 3 Replies


Started by shiva. Last reply by Antony Jun 25, 2012. 3 Replies

EU membership without a vote

Started by Kinana. Last reply by paul collings Jun 13, 2012. 7 Replies

The Genocide of the Ottoman Greeks

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Joe May 7, 2012. 2 Replies

Turkey returns some religious properties

Started by Kinana. Last reply by paul collings Aug 31, 2011. 2 Replies

Turkey's part in "Jihad in Humanitarian cloaks"

Started by Mary, Act 4 America Chptr Leader. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 6, 2010. 1 Reply

Patriarch Bartholomew Feels "Crucified"

Started by John Carlson Dec 28, 2009. 0 Replies

Timeline of Byzantium

Started by Netcon. Last reply by Netcon Dec 28, 2009. 2 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Joe on January 11, 2014 at 13:25

Turkey is #1 in the list of countries requesting that Google remove content from its index.

Yes, Turkey tell Google not to allow certain search results to be returned.  Now it looks like they are going to start logging which individuals request such information.

Next time some treasonous politician talks about supporting Turkey's membership of the EU, remember these actions by Turkey - and remember that Turkey imprisons more journalists than any other country on the planet.

Comment by Alan Lake on December 20, 2013 at 16:01

Victor Davis Hanson on Resetting Turkish Reset

by Victor Davis Hanson
Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow.  chair, military history working group

The common interpretation of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan’s agenda–curtailing individual freedoms and democratic institutions at home, an anti-Israel world view, the (failed) dalliance with the Iran-Hezbollah bloc, overt support for the Muslim Brotherhood–is that by rejecting the secular traditions of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk that led to the modern Turkish nation, he is internally refashioning Turkey as an Islamist and not-so democratic state. Secondly, Erdogan envisions the new Turkey as an ethnic and religious nexus of the greater Muslim world. His so-called neo-Ottomanism would make Turkey the Middle East concierge between the West and Islam. By now few in the West–except the present U.S. administration–are taken in by Erdogan’s blowhard evocations of everything from the battle of Manzikert to the 16th-century Ottoman Islamization of the Balkans.

Even European Union grandees long ago sized up Erdogan’s agendas and concluded that if Turkey once had some potential for EU membership, it most certainly does not any longer under the forces that brought Erdogan to power. For all practical purposes, Erdogan’s idea of an Ottoman and Islamist Turkey is incompatible with its traditional NATO membership; indeed, in the post-Cold War it is difficult to envision any crisis scenario–even the present Syrian mess–in which Erdogan could be a muscular and reliable U.S. ally. His present cachet is predicated on Barack Obama’s romance with supposedly authentic and grass roots Middle East Islamists of the Mohamed Morsi and Hamas sorts. Because Obama is intrigued by Erdogan’s boutique anti-Western and anti-Israeli rants, the latter’s hostilities have not yet earned the snubs they deserve. The post-Obama State Department will probably have to reset with Turkey or Turkey with us, if any semblance of the old relationship is to survive.

Paradoxically, common skepticism about Erdogan is creating a strategic partnership in the Eastern Mediterranean between Greece, Cyprus, Israel, and some Balkan states that, by any historical or cultural ties, should be our more natural allies than an Islamist Turkey, much less looking to Russia for guidance. In sum, ossified institutions like NATO and the special American relationship have not caught up with Mr. Erdogan. But it is only a matter of time.

Comment by Alan Lake on October 4, 2013 at 17:43

Thanks Shiva, but see the link to a video on Cappadocia that I posted on this wall on 9 Sept. has already gone.

Comment by shiva on October 1, 2013 at 16:09


Here is something the tour guides will not tell you.

During a visit from St. Paul in the first century CE, the inhabitants of Cappadocia in central Anatolia were so thoroughly converted that Cappadocia became the great stronghold of Christian monasticism.. The monasteries and churches, dug deeply into the easily worked volcanic tufa cliffs, continued to fulfill their functions until the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey in 1923. Here we have the Girl’s Monastery, which accommodated some 300 nuns and is called by the Turks the “Virgins Castle.”"

Comment by Alan Lake on October 1, 2013 at 3:41

From the Times - not renowned for ever being critical of Islam - Turkey has removed the ban on headscarves.  This is all part of the dismantleing of its secular state, making way for Erdogans Islamic one.  As he himself said, Democracy is like a bus, when you get to the stop  you want, you get off.

So once this ban has been removed, lets see if Turkey follows in the path of Egypt:

Comment by Alan Lake on September 15, 2013 at 11:38

An overview of the Eganekon trials.  We didn't hear much about this did we?

Comment by Alan Lake on September 9, 2013 at 19:13

Just some general background historical info on Turkey.  Although you will wonder why these massive 7-storey underground cities became uninhabited.  Something to do with the Islamic invasion perhaps?

Comment by paul collings on June 3, 2013 at 9:18

That's really going to help. The great Satan tell the people of Turkey to sit back and accept the Islamization of their country.

Still  it is the fault of the People. They voted him in. They will need to remember that at their next elections. 

Comment by Antony on June 1, 2013 at 11:02

Violent protests against islamist government ;

Comment by Alan Lake on April 8, 2013 at 4:28

Sultan Erdogan: Turkey's Rebranding Into the New, Old Ottoman Empire

In the eyes of secularists, the Europe-facing, Western-dressing, cocktail-toasting modern nation-state is being replaced by a religiously conservative one, headscarf by headscarf.


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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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