The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Kuffarphobia in Turkey


Kuffarphobia in Turkey

Türk Hıristiyan ülke olarak ayrımcılık acı küçülen topluluk için laiklik den fişleri

Search Site:
Members: 16
Latest Activity: Mar 26

Key Info

Discussion Forum

The Armenian Genocide: A Complete History

Started by Kinana. Last reply by Antony Jun 28, 2017. 3 Replies

Erdogan: Europe's favourite gangster

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 23, 2017. 6 Replies

The Fall of Constantinople / Istanbul

Started by Charles Martel. Last reply by Kinana May 31, 2013. 3 Replies


Started by shiva. Last reply by Antony Jun 25, 2012. 3 Replies

EU membership without a vote

Started by Kinana. Last reply by paul collings Jun 13, 2012. 7 Replies

The Genocide of the Ottoman Greeks

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Joe May 7, 2012. 2 Replies

Turkey returns some religious properties

Started by Kinana. Last reply by paul collings Aug 31, 2011. 2 Replies

Turkey's part in "Jihad in Humanitarian cloaks"

Started by Mary, Act 4 America Chptr Leader. Last reply by Alan Lake Jun 6, 2010. 1 Reply

Patriarch Bartholomew Feels "Crucified"

Started by John Carlson Dec 28, 2009. 0 Replies

Timeline of Byzantium

Started by Netcon. Last reply by Netcon Dec 28, 2009. 2 Replies

Comment Wall

Add a Comment

You need to be a member of Kuffarphobia in Turkey to add comments!

Comment by Alan Lake on September 9, 2013 at 19:13

Just some general background historical info on Turkey.  Although you will wonder why these massive 7-storey underground cities became uninhabited.  Something to do with the Islamic invasion perhaps?

Comment by Antony on June 1, 2013 at 11:02

Violent protests against islamist government ;

Comment by Alan Lake on April 8, 2013 at 4:28

Sultan Erdogan: Turkey's Rebranding Into the New, Old Ottoman Empire

In the eyes of secularists, the Europe-facing, Western-dressing, cocktail-toasting modern nation-state is being replaced by a religiously conservative one, headscarf by headscarf.

Comment by Antony on October 30, 2012 at 8:26
Comment by Antony on May 31, 2012 at 11:21
Comment by Alan Lake on April 24, 2012 at 5:31

Watch this amazing lecture on the underground cities of Cappadocia, some of them even had 10,000 residents!

At the same time, this is very disappointing.  Just as the tourists of the Aya Sophia don't ask why it has minarets, what is the most important cathedral in Christendom doing in an Islamic country, and what happened to all the Christians that sheltered in that cathedral, this lecturer is not asking why those Christians hid in underground cities.

It is must be the case that as the Islamic juggernaut crushed all underfoot as it progressed through Anatolia, those poor abandoned communities sought refuge underground.  It must have been very hard, after all, they did not even have electric light, so whatever light they had must have given off toxic smoke, and they still had to return to the surface to graze their flocks.  What a tragedy.

Comment by Joe on April 19, 2012 at 14:54

Turkish minorities want the country to have a constitution that does not treat them as 2nd class citizens.

Good luck with that.  The world ignores Turkey, where it is illegal for the Kurdish minority to speak Kurdish, and instead blithely accepts the loony left's notion that Israel is an apartheid state.  Let's transpose that: if Israel made arabic an illegal language, maybe there would be some case to be upset (maybe).  But Turkey gets away with.

Comment by Alan Lake on January 20, 2012 at 3:24

From Wikipedia: looks like the secular Turkey of Ataturk was too good to last.


Israel has provided extensive military assistance to Turkey. Israel sold Turkey IAI Heron Unmanned aerial vehicles, and modernized Turkey's F-4 Phantom and Northrop F-5 aircraft at the cost of $900 million. Turkey's main battle tank is the Israeli-made Sabra tank, of which Turkey has 170. Israel later upgraded them for $500 million. Israel has also supplied Turkey with Israeli-made missiles, and the two nations have engaged in naval cooperation. Turkey allowed Israeli pilots to practice long-range flying over mountainous terrain in Turkey's Konya firing range, while Israel trains Turkish pilots at Israel's computerized firing range at Nevatim Airbase.[87][88] Until 2009, the Turkish military was one of Israel's largest defense customers. Israel defense companies have sold unmanned aerial vehicles and long-range targeting pods.[89]

However, relations have been strained in recent times. In the last two years, the Turkish military has declined to participate in the annual joint naval exercise with Israel and the United States. The exercise, known as "Reliant Mermaid" was started in 1998 and included the Israeli, Turkish and American navies.[90] The objective of the exercise is to practice search-and-rescue operations and to familiarize each navy with international partners who also operate in the Mediterranean Sea.[91]

Comment by Alan Lake on December 23, 2011 at 6:10

Turkey recalls envoy from France over 'genocide' bill

An Armenian woman mourns a dead boy during the deportations in 1915Armenians say up to 1.5m people were killed by the Ottoman Turks in 1915-16

Related Stories

The Turkish ambassador to France has been recalled in protest at a bill making it illegal to deny the mass killing of Armenians was genocide.

The National Assembly in Paris voted by a show of hands to back the bill by a large majority, and it will go before the Senate next year.

Turkey rejects the term "genocide" to describe the killing of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe publicly opposed the bill.

Under the bill, those publicly denying genocide would face a year in jail and a fine of 45,000 euros (£29,000: $58,000).

Armenians say up to 1.5m people were killed by the Ottoman Turks in 1915-16.

Ankara says closer to 300,000 people died, and that Turks were also killed as Armenians rose up against the Ottoman Empire when Russian troops invaded eastern Anatolia, now eastern Turkey.

More than 20 countries have formally recognised the killings as genocide.

'Inspired by European law'

Turkish TV announced the recall of the country's envoy in response to the bill.

Start Quote

Valerie Boyer

My bill doesn't aim at any particular country”

Valerie BoyerFrench MP

Ambassador Tahsin Burcuoglu will leave France on Friday and further measures will be announced in Turkey by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a Turkish embassy spokesman confirmed for French news agency AFP.

Earlier, Turkey's main political parties issued a joint statement condemning the bill, saying it "denigrates Turkish history", and there have been protests outside the French embassy in the Turkish capital, Ankara.

The bill's author, Valerie Boyer from France's ruling conservative UMP party, said she was "shocked" at Turkey's intervention.

"My bill doesn't aim at any particular country," she said.

Turkey and the Armenians

  • Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Armenians died during mass deportations by Ottoman Turks in 1915-6
  • More than 20 countries say it was genocide
  • Turkey and some historians say it was part of widespread turmoil in World War I in which Muslims also died
  • Estimated 500,000 ethnic Armenians now in France
  • Turkey closed Armenia border in 1993 because of conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh
  • Turkey signed 2009 deal with Armenia to examine 1915 killings and open borders: ratified by neither side

"It is inspired by European law, which says that the people who deny the existence of the genocides must be sanctioned."

Jean-Christophe Lagarde, an MP from the New Centre party, said: "Laws voted in this chamber cannot be dictated by Ankara."

Maurice Delighazarian, 75, lost his grandparents in 1915.

"Our ancestors can finally rest in peace," he was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency in Paris.

Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian thanked the French parliament for supporting the bill.

"I would like to once again express my gratitude to France's top leadership, to the National Assembly, and to the French people," he told AFP in the Armenian capital Yerevan.

He added that France had "once again proved its commitment to universal human values".


Mr Juppe criticised the proposed law, which follows France's formal recognition of the killings as genocide in 2001. No penalty was attached for denial at the time.

Mr Juppe told reporters it was a critical juncture in the Middle East and he emphasised the role Turkey had been playing in the Arab Spring, as well as the strong economic ties that existed between Turkey and France.

"It [the bill] is useless and counter-productive," he said.

"Passing laws in France won't change their minds in Turkey. We recognise the consequences. I would expect a robust Turkish response. The retaliation could have damaging and serious consequences."

His disapproval appears to be in direct conflict with the tacit support that has been given by President Nicolas Sarkozy to the bill, the BBC's Christian Fraser reports from Paris.

There are some half a million ethnic Armenians living in France and their vote is considered important in next year's presidential election, our correspondent notes.

Comment by Albert Case on September 19, 2011 at 10:58

Members (15)


Monitor this Page

You don't have to be a member of 4F to follow any room or topic! Just fill in on any page you like.

Privacy & Unsubscribe respected

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

© 2018   Created by Netcon.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service