The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/19/anjem-choudary-and-the-criminal...

Simon Cottee here defends Choudary, portraying him as a reasonable person that is merely practicing his right to have an opinion protected by the principle of free-speech and to have beliefs protected by freedom of religion. Would he say the same about someone that I have no doubt he would describe as a potentially violent, dangerous far-right-extremist? What I would term a patriotic nationalist.

“Whereas the little we know about radicalization suggests the opposite: a convoluted and unscripted process where real people with limited knowledge, resources, and power collide and make extraordinary decisions.”

This is a lie, that these Muslims have a limited knowledge of Islam. Any fool can understand the basic principles of Islam; the violence and the goal of global domination.

Just like the lie that only a tiny minority of Muslims are radical.

Choudary pledged his allegiance to ISIS.

Which makes him, and I believe every Muslim, someone not to be relied upon. A traitor.

A Muslim is by definition an enemy of the state, because his first loyalty will always be to Islam. The only state he will respect is an Islamic State and the only law he can accept is Sharia Law.

“The deeper significance of Choudary’s conviction is that it inaugurates a new and disturbing phase in Britain’s pushback against “extremism”: the criminalization of radical dissent and defection.”

I do not think Simon Cottee finds it the least disturbing when a patriotic nationalist is jailed for criticizing Islam, for what he would term hate-crime.

“As the Egyptian cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi put it: “Waging war against Allah and His Messenger by speaking openly against them is more dangerous to Islam than physically attacking its followers … moral mischief in the land is more hazardous than physical mischief.” Choudary is not facing the death penalty for his sundry speech crimes, but the impetus behind his conviction is informed more by concerns over his “moral mischief” than by any physical threat he poses. The same thinking and anxieties underlie Saudi Arabia’s decision, taken in 2014, to criminalize atheism as terrorism. But of course atheism is no more terrorism than is defection from Western values.

Choudary is a clown with odious views. But he should not be criminalized, still less branded as a terrorist, for espousing these views. Rather, he should be subjected to trenchant criticism and ridicule. In Choudary’s imagined utopia, it would be a capital offense to criticize Islam and the Prophet Mohammed. By criminalizing views that challenge its defining principles, liberal democracies risk replicating the unfreedom that Choudary so brashly and shamelessly stands for.”

Choudary defends the putting to death of apostates. I think he would also support the killing of; those that criticise Islam, atheists, homosexuals and Israelis.

Is this innocent activity? if I was to advocate the extermination of Muslims I imagine I would recieve a stiff prison sentence, and coincidentally a death sentence because tha Muslims inside would murder me.

Cottees conclusion seems to be that the best way to counter Islamism and to facilitate the integration of Muslims into society is to enter into dialogue with them. Try reasoning with an ISIS executioner!

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Replies to This Discussion

Cottee would not apply the same argument to Nazis or the KKK (Ku Klux Klan). What a virtue signalling libtard.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&s...

As many of us suspected, Choudary was at least protected by the security forces of this country. But that aside, it does seem strange that Choudary was suddenly locked up. 

Choudary has always been careful not to say anything that would end in a court case. But as soon as he mentioned he'd like to go join the caliphate his feet barely touched the ground. 

Lets face it, 16 year old school girls have managed to find their way to Syria, how is it that a well connected Goat fancier from Bexley couldn't do the same. You'd think he got locked up on purpose.  I think he had to do something quick so his cowardice wasn't exposed to all his dopey followers. Now he can continue to preach from the comfort of a prison cell at the expense of the tax payer.

How many appeals will a lawyer like Choudary be able to instigate during the course of his incarceration. How many of his goat herd will be planning protests about his 'political' persecution. Unlike other Muslim preachers we can't extradite  Choudary, but we should have called his bluff and let him go to the Caliphate. By force if necessary.   

We have to make laws that allow for cancellation of citizenship and immediate deportation without right of appeal. If the country that the undesirable's parents or grandparents came from will not accept them, then they must be given a choice between life-imprisonment here under harsh conditions or removal to any country that will accept them. We have to give a damn about human rights here. People like Choudary, or someone that destroys his papers and refuses to say where he came from, must be given the choice between life imprisonment or returning of his own free will to the country of his fathers. It should be possible to get a fix on the origin of an individuals DNA. A very cheap and amenityless prison. The well-being of the individual will then become the responsibility of his homeland.

We need ruthless leaders to fix the mess we are in.

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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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