It takes a nation to protect the nation
As various steps are taken against islam in the west, one of the things we risk doing is losing sight of the scale of the problem. Various legal measures have been put in place that mean that the threat is going to disappear from view (that doesn't mean it is going away, just that the legal measures will result in things not being said explicitly, but they will continue to be said using more implicit means). So I thought it was important to document the scale of some of these things now and as we go forward, so that in the future people are not mislead by the view of islamic fascism that has been softened for public consumption. The threat remains; even if over the next 20 or 30 years, what people hear muslims publicly saying about islam sounds less threatening, the texts and the command that they not be altered remain, and can be re-invoked at a later stage when the number of muslims in a democracy gives them the power to do so.
I'm going to discuss Hizb ut Tahrir and Zakir Naik below. We can add other events as we think of them.
Note that in 2002, Hizb ut Tahrir got 10000 people to their Wembley conference. That is an astronomical number (drawn from a mere 3% of the British population; none of the major political parties can get that many people to a conference. even when they can draw from 100% of the British population).
Hizb ut Tahrir has now effectively gone underground in Britain. They no longer organise these huge conferences (when they do organise conferences, they no longer use the name of their organisation, but bill the conference as being about something more generic in islam).
It is likely that this is to do with the EDL making a point of protesting against such conferences. Many venues have cancelled islamic fascist conferences, meaning that the organisers must always have backup locations. The number of islamic fascist conferences in Britain has dropped significantly since the activities of EDL began.
* Founded in Jerusalem in 1953 with aim of establishing the Caliphate, an Islamic superstate, by revolutionary means
* View on western life: "We should not become integrated into the corrupt western society and accept their diseased notions of democracy, freedom and capitalism"
* Banned in Germany under the country's strict laws against anti-Semitism, and in Russia, and in most of the 40 countries where it operates
* UK arm set up in 1980s by Farid Kassim, Omar Bakri and the Bin Laden-linked Saudi dissident Muhammed al-Masri
* Bakri later broke away to form the more overtly violent al-Muhajiroun
* Now led by a 28-year-old, British-born Indian and IT specialist, Jalaluddin Patel
* Organised in 2002 the largest Muslim conference in the UK, "British or Muslim", which attracted 10,000 people to Wembley Arena
* Three British members were sentenced to five years in jail in Egypt in 2004
* British members have founded the hip-hop group Blakstone and the Muslim lifestyle magazine Salam
* Members work in the education system, the NHS and firms like IBM, Reuters and Tesco
A few years back, their British website listed the leaders & organisational roles in Britain (the vast majority of them were doctors, lawyers, etc). Now they no longer do that. Again, this is probably because of the adverse publicity that EDL has directed towards groups like Hizb ut Tahrir (the media only ever report on the existence of Hizb ut Tahrir sporadically (every few years), meaning that plenty of well-educated, politically-engaged people live under the assumption that Hizb ut Tahrir no longer exists, and some even believe that it was banned by the government at some point).
The HuT website has no forume, so we cannot view what they are discussing (or how many people are interacting with their website). They direct people to a front organisation on Facebook -- https://www.facebook.com/OurProphetOurHonour Consistent with them having grown from the 10,000 who attended the 2002 conference in Wembley, their FB page has over 30,000 fans.
On the Facebook page they direct people to another website -- http://www.knowmuhammad.co.uk It is clear that this organisation is involved in organising conferences that are recommended by Hizb ut Tahrir.
Quilliam's memo to the incoming coalition government in 2010 lists 20 groups (see pp.60-61 of the numbered pages of the above document) who share the "islamist" views of Hizb ut Tahrir. Now that such views have pervaded muslim organisations around Britain, it is to be expected that Hizb ut Tahrir would no longer need (and is perhaps incapable of) organising a conference with 10,000 islamic fascists.
However, the case of Zakir Naik leads one to think that with an "inspirational" and famous speaker, islamic fascists in Britain would have no trouble organizing conferences of the size Hizb ut Tahrir's 2002 Wembley conference.
Quilliam makes it clear that "islamism" is really another form of Nazism.
Islamism is deeply problematic in itself. Islamist plans to create a totalitarian stated beased on a system of sectarian and gender apartheid are no better than plans of far-right white supremacists who long to create an anti-democractic, fascist state based on comparable doctrines of racial aparatheid. (page 12 of above document).
Yet we almost never hear the "liberal media" or politicians speak of islamism in these terms. In 2005 when David Cameron described islamists as nazis, he seemed to only be deeming those islamic fascists who promoted violence as nazis.
During the last century a strain of Islamist thinking has developed which, like other totalitarianisms, such as Nazi-ism and Communism, offers its followers a form of redemption through violence. [...] Jihadism, like Nazi-sim and Communism before it, often bewitches the minds of gifted and educated young men. [...] Just like the Nazis of 1930s Germany they want to purge corrupt cosmopolitan influences The parallels with the rise of Nazi-ism go further. Just as there were figures in the 1930s who misunderstood the totalitarian wickedness of Nazi-ism and argued that Hitler had a rational set of limited political demands, so there are people today who try to explain Jihadist violence with reference to a limited set of political goals.
If we assume that Cameron is talking about all islamism, then there are now at least 20 muslim organisations in Britain that are spouting islamic fascism. Yet, unless there are direct calls to kill being made by these organisations, the media virtually ignore them, and rarely comment on them. Whilst the majority of politically-active people in Britain probably know who Hitler or Mussolini was, and what the battle of Cable St. was, I doubt that 99% of politically active people in Britain could name more than one of these islamic-fascist organisations. Thus, they continue to operate below the radar of the majority of the population. When newspapers stop reporting on threats to kill emanating from these institutions, the majoriy of the politically-active populous will live life thinking the problem has gone away.
There is no sign that the government, schools or media are doing anything to educate the public about the rising threat of Nazism (we can reasonably deduce that the number of islamic-nazis in Britain is doubling every decade, and is possibly increasing far more rapidly than that).
In debates with those who at least know of the existence of Hizb ut Tahrir (e.g. with the man who runs the website "Islamic Far Right in Britain"), they have argued that Hizb ut Tahrir is now irrelevant, since they no longer have a high profile, and they no longer have these conferences with astronomical attendance figures. This is exactly the attitude that I think is naive and dangerous.
In arguing that the ideology of Hizb ut Tahrir has spread to 20 other islamic organisations in Britain, I think it is clear that the threat is now more diffuse than it was in 2002. In the 1990s, Hizb ut Tahrir used to openly advocate the execution of homosexuals. After Tatchell protested about this, they just tailored their massage to make that advocacy implicit: they started to say "implement full sharia law". http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/islamic.htm The threat looks like it has gone away, but it hasn't. Banning orders and restrictions on public statements are simply treating the symptoms not the disease. The disease continues to spread, only out of the public eye. That is what I believe is going on with islamic fascism in Britain.
In 2010, Dr. Zakir Naik was to do a "lecture tour" of Britain. The EDL said they would demonstrate outside the venues. The govenment banned Zakir Naik from entering the country (he appealed agianst the ban, and lost). But these banning orders only serve to make the hidden part of the iceberg bigger.
Zakir Naik has some of the most explicit views of islamic fascits. He advoctaes terrorism. He openly advocates domination by muslims of non-muslims. Banning him does not stop his views getting through (they can be found on YouTube, and even if they couldn't muslims can share them via email, or by closed forums). The people who end up being uninformed are the vast majority of non-muslims who are not in any way connected to the networks of communication which connect muslims.
Why did the government ban him (he'd been to Britain before). They banned him because there were going to be upwards of 30,000 muslims attending his lecture tour. And if the EDL did protest outside those venues, then there was the liklihood there would be violence, and the public would get to know about what Zakir Naik had to say, and just how extensive the support for islamic fascism was in Britain.
It's only 3 years ago, but already this information about the proposed event and the banning have slipped from public view. Naik's supporters had booked 3 football stadiums where he would conduct his Nazi rallies: Wembley, Sheffield, Birmingham. http://old.richarddawkins.net/discussions/475341-dr-zakir-naik-uk-tour Even small stadia in Britain can hold 10,000. Naik's supporters were expecting a minimum of 10,000 at each venue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_stadiums_by_capacity
Traitors like the convicted criminal "Lord" Ahmed (who admit to being islamists) organised a petition to the Prime Minister containing 10,000 signatures of those objecting to Naik being banned (a petition calling for his ban had 8,000 signatures).
His supporters are pulling out all stops from their way and spending loads of money to ensure the ban is lifted. Naik’s solicitor is being assisted by two QCs from former prime minister Tony Blair’s wife Cherie Booth’s Matrix Chambers.
Those Muslims, mainly Indian and Pakistanis, who were in favour of the ban gathered about 8,000 signatures, but Lord Nazir Ahmed led a delegation of pro-Zakir Naik camp and presented 10,000 signatures to 10 Downing Street, urging the government to overturn the ban as the full hearing in a court of law is already under way.
Lord Nazir Ahmed told media that Dr Zakir Naik is renowned worldwide and in the United Kingdom for his excellent work in the field of comparative religion, bringing together people from all the major faiths of the world on a common platform of peace and mutual understanding.
He said to associate the cleric with terrorism is completely wrong and such suggestions were ridiculous.
He said the decision by the Home Secretary to exclude Dr Zakir Naik goes against the British social justice and freedom and it does nothing to promote integration and harmony between the diverse communities.
Lord Ahmed said if people like anti-Islam Dutch MP Geert Wilders were allowed in Britain to openly preach hatred against Muslims then why not Zakir Naik who preaches peace and community cohesion.
Zakir Naik was subsequently banned from appearing in Canada, and there too he was expected to draw crowds of 10,000 islamic fascists.
An Indian Muslim televangelist who was banned from Britain last week for “unacceptable behaviour” will not be allowed into Canada to speak at an upcoming conference in Toronto, sources familiar with the situation have told the National Post.
Dr. Zakir Naik, who has said “every Muslim should be a terrorist” and that Jews are “our staunchest enemy,” was to headline next month’s Journey of Faith Conference — which is billed as one of North America’s largest Islamic conferences and is expected to attract upward of 10,000 people.
Dr. Naik, the Mumbai-based founder of Peace TV and a widely respected lecturer in India, has a laundry list of views that could have led to his exclusion from the U.K. and Canada, both of which require an Indian citizen to obtain a visitor visa.
The 44-year-old medical doctor recommends capital punishment for homosexuals and the death penalty for those who abandon Islam as their faith.
The document the above quote comes from has since been deleted from this url: http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/06/21/controversial-muslim-televa... .
Thus is the information about the scale of the problem hidden from popular knowledge.
Banning, censorship, re-writing of history. We are increasingly becoming incapable of judging the size of the iceberg, as less and less of it is visible. The symptoms disappear, but the disease spreads through the body politic.
We have no reason to be complacent (complacent like the author of The Islamic Far Right in Britain).
Banning him does not stop his views getting through (they can be found on YouTube, and even if they couldn't muslims can share them via email, or by closed forums).
He still did a Q&A session at Oxford University in 2011, by videolink, so you are right, the impact of these bannings is minimal, even deceptive.
I have got mixed feelings about things like this: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/26/manchester-university-society-...
The same with the prayer room at City University.
Tatchell was campaigning against Hizb ut Tahrir almost 20 years ago, because they were saying "kill homosexuals". It hasn't stopped the idea of the caliphate or of "islamism" spreading throughout Britain and throughout the world. Maybe if there had been a mass purge of such cancerous organisations in Britain 20 years ago, it would have made a difference (after all, there wasn't the internet in public hands then).
It was about 7 years ago that a survey found that 25 out of 100 mosques contained books saying "kill homosexuals". I guess it will be another 7 years before bookshops are closed down for having such things.
But what kind of a society are we drifting into? It's an ever decreasing circle of freedoms. The quid pro quo for these shutdowns of muslim institutions will be some shutdown of those who criticise islam. That's what the Labour government did with their 2005 counter-terrorism bill, they brought in the religious hatred bill to mollify muslims for the inevitable increase of arrests on terrorism charges.
As more of these "islamist" organisations are shut down, more of the enablers will be able to say "see, the threat from islam has been contained". Yet for all that gay marriage might be legal by the end of this year, it was only 4 years ago that 99.5% of muslims in Britain volunteered the information that they were opposed to homosexuality.
The comments were secretly recorded by Middle East studies student Colin Cortbus at a public meeting organised by the Global Aspirations of Women student group at the University of Manchester’s Students’ Union earlier this month.
Colin Cortbus is a brave man. Now watch the Left's Fascist Enablers target him.
I know what you mean Joe. By "containing" the problem, it is only pushing the virus deeper into the body and suppressing the symptoms. When the Fascists finally get enough power, there will be all hell to pay.
Casuals United are saying they have now stopped 4 public talks by hate preachers.
Not entirely sure if this will contribute to the iceberg or not.
A guest post from Ahmed Rushdi.
Coming from the University whose President and Provost said Islamist extremism on campus ‘doesn’t exist‘, and from a University whose alumni are in the news for all the wrong reasons, University College London issued a press release stating that future events involving iERA would not be allowed following the controversy surrounding last night’s Atheism and Islam debate with Professor Lawrence Krauss.
The statement in full:
An organisation known as the Islamic Education and Research Academy (IERA) booked a room at UCL for a debate on Saturday evening (9 March). UCL was notified during Friday by some individuals planning to attend the event that the organisers intended to segregate the audience by gender.
This was directly contrary to UCL policy. We do not allow enforced segregation on any grounds at meetings held on campus. We immediately made clear to the organisers that the event would be cancelled if there were any attempt to enforce such segregation. We also required the organisers to make it explicit to attendees that seating arrangements were optional, and guests were welcome to sit wherever they felt comfortable. We also arranged for additional security staff to be present to ensure that people were not seated against their wishes.
It now appears that, despite our clear instructions, attempts were made to enforce segregation at the meeting. We are still investigating what actually happened at the meeting but, given IERA’s original intentions for a segregated audience we have concluded that their interests are contrary to UCL’s ethos and that we should not allow any further events involving them to take place on UCL premises.
I suppose we should be thankful for small mercies. I now hope Universities across the United Kingdom follow suit.
UCL might have managed to enforce equal rights this time. But in 5 or 10 years time? When the Muslim population is higher and that of the University even higher? You can be sure they will cave in.
Like a gradually tightening vice, or a slowly spreading virus, Islam is not stoppable by any ordinary means. So look at history. The only times its borders have been pushed back are by large armies (Israel and Spain), and the only time its forced-conversion people's have been purified and restored to their original beliefs, is by the inquisition.
Perhaps I should have put this topic in a more general room.
Authorities in Germany have banned three Islamist groups, accusing them of being "anti-democratic" and seeking to impose sharia law.
DawaFFM, Islamische Audios and An-Nussrah all adhere to ultra-conservative Salafist doctrine.
Police mounted raids against the groups on Wednesday, but no arrests were made.
German officials have said videos produced by DawaFFM partly inspired the man who shot dead two US airmen at Frankfurt airport in 2011.
An-Nussrah was judged to be part of the Millatu Ibrahim organisation, which had been banned in June last year.
"Salafism, as represented by the groups banned today, is incompatible with our peaceful, democratic system," Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich said in a statement.
"DawaFFM, Islamische Audios and An-Nussrah aim to change our society in an aggressive way so that democracy is replaced by a Salafist system and the state of law replaced by sharia," he went on.
Searches were carried out early on Wednesday morning at the addresses of 20 people in the states of Hesse and North-Rhine Westphalia, the interior ministry said.
Computer equipment and propaganda material in German and Arabic were seized, as well as more than 10,000 euros (£8,600; $13,000) in cash.
German officials also accuse the groups of encouraging violence against those who do not agree with their views.
"These bans will also serve to protect the vast number of peaceful Muslims. They must not be troubled by conflicts deliberately fomented by extremists," Mr Friedrich said.
There are believed to be about 4,000 active Salafists in Germany, out of a broader Muslim population of well over 4m.
Also on Wednesday, German media reported that police in North Rhine-Westphalia had prevented an attempt by radical Islamists to kill the leader of the far-right Pro-NRW party, Markus Beisicht.
Four people have been arrested, at least one of whom was armed, according to local media.
Interview on the state of life in 3 Parisian arrondissements. But this was the salient bit for this topic:
Last year in Paris, three clandestine Islamic schools were closed, so today their addresses are no longer available on the internet, or in the city directory because these schools have taken measures. Officially this school does not exist.
I can just imagine the media, politicians and leftists thinking: we will just let these things disappear from view, then there will be no complaints from those opposing islam.
Interesting that in the interview it is stated that the muslim population of France is 10% but that nobody knows for sure. Just like the official figure in Britain is around 5%, yet the stats for halal meat sales and muslims in prison suggest that the muslim population in Britain is already between 10% and 20%.