It takes a nation to protect the nation
The Ideological Iceberg
As various steps are taken against islam in the west, one of the things we risk doing is losing sight of the scale of the problem. Various legal measures have been put in place that mean that the threat is going to disappear from view (that doesn't mean it is going away, just that the legal measures will result in things not being said explicitly, but they will continue to be said using more implicit means). So I thought it was important to document the scale of some of these things now and as we go forward, so that in the future people are not mislead by the view of islamic fascism that has been softened for public consumption. The threat remains; even if over the next 20 or 30 years, what people hear muslims publicly saying about islam sounds less threatening, the texts and the command that they not be altered remain, and can be re-invoked at a later stage when the number of muslims in a democracy gives them the power to do so.
I'm going to discuss Hizb ut Tahrir and Zakir Naik below. We can add other events as we think of them.
Tags: banned, censorship, hizb-ut-tahrir, naik, quilliam, time-bomb, zakir
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe on
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I was going to put this comment under "ideological chasm", but I think that might be the wrong image for this. The Chasm suggests a phenomenon that people experience as they realise that civil society is shifting under their feet, and they struggle (consciously or semi-consciously) to remain stable whilst the shift magnifies itself.
The Iceberg suggests that they are totally unaware of the shift that is taking place.
I haven't given much attention or thought to Britain First. However, I recently followed a link that took me to their Facebook page. And to my astonishment, they had 123k likes. I remember it took EDL 2 years of demos, and a lot of bad PR, to get to 40k. It was the killing of Lee Rigby which catapulted EDL to 160k "likes".
Yet here is Britain First, an organisation about which I know almost nothing (other than it's leader is banned from coming within 20 miles of Parliament), which has almost as much support as EDL. Yet Britain First has had almost zero attention in the media, and the general public have no idea about its existence (I canvassed a few friends interested in politics and critical of multiculturalism, islam and immigration - none of them had ever heard of Britain First).
Britain First can post a photo on their Page, and it gets shared 12,000 times within a day. I was never convinced that most of the 160k who "liked" EDL's page even remembered that it was in their list of likes. But that BF should have such popularity based on little activity and very little PR is astonishing. Maybe they are buying likes using Facebook advertising. But to have things shared so much suggests that is not the case.Moreover, looking at what position they hold politically -- a nationalist party with a street movement -- that does suggest something closer to Golden Dawn or some similar organisation. Unlike EDL, I understand that BF have no tolerance for multiculturalism, gay rights or Israel.
This reminds me of what I told the police experts in 2010: "if you help the media to destroy EDL, then what comes after EDL will be far worse". -
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Permalink Reply by Antony on
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Joe - re you're last comment re Britain First - I think a Golden Dawn type party is precisely what the establishment want, the EDL's politics are too "anarchic & popular" for them, they want something controllable and limited in size, so the anti semetic policies, gratuitous racism etc of neo-fascist type groups will automatically put off many people and foment demonstrations against them, thus allowing the establishment to play divide and rule tactics, and have thugs on both sides of the equation to do their bidding.
Britain First look very much like what the business community would call an "off the self" type company, shrewd marketing and literature etc..
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Thanks Antony. Interesting observations about BF. I'm of the opinion that the BNP was a puppet of MI5. I hadn't formed the same opinion of BF, but it could just be that the puppet-masters are getting more sophisticated with their puppetry.
I still think the only credible way for BF to have got close to the "virtual support" of EDL is by buying "likes". I'd be more convinced by that if I knew of any study which demonstrated that one could buy "shares" for individual posts (if that is so, then maybe BF bought many of the 12,000 "shares" that photo got in 1 day. I know some of the stats for when something related to EDL was shortly after the killing of Lee Rigby, and it was not 1,200 "shares" in 2 days.
Antony said:Joe - re you're last comment re Britain First - I think a Golden Dawn type party is precisely what the establishment want, the EDL's politics are too "anarchic & popular" for them, they want something controllable and limited in size, so the anti semetic policies, gratuitous racism etc of neo-fascist type groups will automatically put off many people and foment demonstrations against them, thus allowing the establishment to play divide and rule tactics, and have thugs on both sides of the equation to do their bidding.
Britain First look very much like what the business community would call an "off the self" type company, shrewd marketing and literature etc..
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Much of Jim Dowson and Paul Golding's efforts at Britain First appear to focus around income generation, probably mirroring their previous fundraising roles at the BNP (and no doubt utilising the BNP membership database!). Their money-making obsession and continual barrage of unsolicited begging emails has led many to believe that this is actually their sole or main objective.
Though their recent street actions have been impressive in both the accuracy of their targets and swiftness of response (for example their arrival at Anjem Choudary's recruitment fair in East London on 15 March 2014). However, their numbers are typically only around 10 at these protests and up to 30 at best - hardly mirroring their alleged web presence.
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I was skeptical before about the true popularity of Britain First in the UK.
I just went to check, and their FB page now has over 600,000 likes. The Labour Party page has just over 200,000.
Looking at the number of posts per day, then the number of "likes" for particular posts would seem to bear out this relative popularity of Britain First over the Labour Party. Of course, none of that means it will translate into votes. Still, it is interesting that BF has apparently grown to have such a number of admirers. It must mean that BF are an important outlet to communicate dissident information.
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Another thing got me thinking: why have the police had Golding prosecuted for wearing a political uniform. They never prosecuted people at EDL demos, and I can't see how the EDL hoodies were any different.
Then I realised: the EDL hoodies were actually of use to the police in identifying (some of) those on the demos. After all, you had people wearing a hoodie which said which town they came from - very useful when trying to identify/name those on demos. The police used to attempt to video the face in medium close up of every single person on an EDL demo. -
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I think this analysis fits in with what we on 4F would say.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/01/a-dream-imposed-before-its-time-be...
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Its doesn't take Nostradamus to know that this clash of civilisations will not end well. Western culture, as we all know is not without its faults and no one is suggesting otherwise. By overestimating the need for immigrant labour and under estimating the lack of integration the UK finds itself with no obvious solution.
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