The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Kuffarphobia in UK


Kuffarphobia in UK

For all those who are fighting to protect the 4 Freedoms in the UK

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Members: 243
Latest Activity: yesterday

Key Info

Useful Websites

English Defence League   (NB the authority for EDL statements is their website, not 4F)

Stop Islamisation Of Europe (SIOE) which is also on facebook

  • We emerge from the social fog of multiculturalism to see a landscape totally unrecognisable and more dangerous, like coming out of a bomb shelter and seeing the debris - Kinana
  • Unhealthy immigration happens - and they do nothing; integration fails - and they invent multiculturalism; multiculturalism breeds ethnic conflict - and they waste billions patching up a society that's falling apart. They never get to the root of the matter - Philip Smeeton
  • Always attributing incompetence to malice leads to paranoia.  Never attributing incompetence to malice leads to gullibility -Joe

Discussion Forum

Free Speech Under Attack Again

Started by C J Bernard Apr 23. 0 Replies

Islam: The Religion of Peace Strikes Again

Started by C J Bernard. Last reply by Alan Lake Mar 26. 1 Reply

Why The UK Will Collapse

Started by Joe. Last reply by Antony Feb 3. 432 Replies

Is this the end of EDL

Started by Arthur. Last reply by Alan Lake Jan 27. 69 Replies

The State is your Enemy

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Dec 13, 2016. 6 Replies

Choudary, Anjem.

Started by Philip Smeeton. Last reply by Philip Smeeton Aug 23, 2016. 4 Replies

The EDL and the Fascist Experts

Started by Joe. Last reply by Kinana Jul 15, 2016. 59 Replies

Dear Bishop Cocksworth

Started by C J Bernard. Last reply by Alan Lake May 20, 2016. 4 Replies

Gates of Vienna

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Comment by Alan Lake on September 9, 2010 at 18:22
What's wrong with carrying full size crucifixes? Like I said before, he'd make a good Muslim!

The media will try their best to smear whoever stands up, and will misquote them at the first chance - in fact it seems to be their job to misquote and take comments out of context. Lets not fall for it.

And isn't it strange how praying 5 times a day to Mecca is perfectly ok, but carrying a crucifix is not? This is the one-sided cultural relativism of the modern day liberal, ready to sneer at anything Christian, but applaud any 'foreign' cultural tradition.

Who are we to assume they are punished? Perhaps they enjoy it. We wouldn't say the same thing about an intensive yoga class, I'm sure.
Comment by Kinana on September 9, 2010 at 17:13
Someone may be a nutter but could still do something, maybe only ONE thing, right! In this case i do not disagree with his right to do it.
Comment by Heather Gilbert on September 9, 2010 at 16:14
Hi There has been some digging around into the quran burning pastor's background and he sounds like an out and out nutter who sees fit to punish his congregation by making them carry full size crucifixes. What a pity that it isn't someone credible who is making a stance against islam. Sadly, this jerk is not doing the campaign against islam any favours at all.
Comment by Pablo Carpo on September 8, 2010 at 23:29
Right this is just me dropping a quick comment to say hello and introduce myself, to the people on here who dont know me, which I reckon must be quite a few. I am Pablo!! I am a member of the English Defence League and have been for quite some time and will remain to do so. I believe that that the EDL is the leading face of the Anti-Jihad fight in our country. We may not be perfect but we are learning continuosly and moving forward all the time.
Comment by Danny Jeffrey on September 8, 2010 at 19:30
Seems you chaps can't get a good protest going without us colonists getting in the way. Rest assured, these photos will be seen by Americans. This wave of terror must end world wide.
Comment by SP on September 8, 2010 at 12:42
Alan, excellent post. The Muslims must not mistake politicians kowtowing to them with the feelings of ordinary people in this country. There will be a backlash on the streets. It's started with the EDL and will grow. Whether the EDL will be around in it's current form in 5 years time or not, I can only see more and larger street protests gathering momentum against Islam and their traitorous apologists. It's inevitable.
Comment by adrian panthers on September 8, 2010 at 12:30
Hello Alan
Things are hotting up in America! Yes I agree the Paster is very brave, I think the ground zero mosque is pissing off so many Americans and there will be some ADL supporters who will overeact. The Muslim community there do not understand why, since Islam is clearly the religion of peace and the infidels are too stupid to understand and need educatinging more about islam!
Anyhow hope your ok, on another topic I am emailing you a video concerning cosmology in crisis. The way climate change skeptics are treated is very similar to they way non mainstream cosmologists are treated. (the same process),
Comment by Alan Lake on September 8, 2010 at 12:21
Pastor Terry Jones is a brave man who is determined to not budge from his principles, no matter what the risk or threats. In fact, he'd make a good Muslim!

This is a complex question and as usual the media and political luminaries are treating it in a simplistic (and cowardly) manner. As usual with difficult questions, I'd like to generalise it (just like mathematicians do), and see if it is more easily understandable in a universal context,.

The question is this: are there cases where it is better to raise the stakes and escalate a dispute, rather than be moderate and conciliatory in an attempt to defuse the situation?

I suggest that both strategies are required. In the case of North Korea for example, a nuclear regime with a crazy dictator, if you push them back hard, they will probably do something really stupid which will get everyone killed, them included, and they are just too crazy to refrain from that.

Now take another situation, where I will describe a strategy called 'Retraining Non-cooperation' Your 5 year old son demands a second ice cream. You say no, and he has a screaming fit. Now you say: "You are not cooperating, so in addition to denying the extra ice cream, I'm also not giving you one tomorrow". He screams even louder. Now you ban all ice cream for a week. He screams even more. Now you tell him "You are still not cooperating, you are not 'on my side', so from now on, no more tv".

I'm not paediatrician ("really?" you say), so the purpose of this example is to demonstrate a point not instruct in how to bring up children. The point here, is that possibly the child is exploiting what it knows to be the soft hearted, kindly and appeasing nature of the parent. This is just like the Islamist who well knows that our cowardly Western dhimmis will bolt for giving a concession to Muslims, (at the expense of everyone else), faster than the king of Hungary seeing a gap in the Mongol army (he was suckered and destroyed).

So the principle here would seem to be:
If your opponent
* does not cooperate with you
* does not possess a nuclear bomb type threat with which he can potentially destroy you and is crazy enough to use it, and
* has become conditioned to expect retreat, concession and appeasement from you and is constantly exploiting that weakness

then you need to initiate a cycle of escalating punitive demands in response to every instance of non-cooperation, in order to train him back to a cooperative dialogue.

There is merit in this approach. The Islamic community is not cooperating and does not seem to have the intention of doing so. So, for example, terror bombings lead to requests to put cameras in areas of Dewsbury known to be hotbeds of terrorist preparation. This leads to endless pathetic whining from the residents about how this is 'discriminatory' and 'unfair'. But you can also view this as 'non-cooperation'. An alternative to backing down is to then insist that all mosques in that area are fitted with cameras and microphones so that the terrorism promoting speeches can also be monitored.

I think this is what Pastor Jones is doing, without realising it. Sensing that Islam, like the naughty child, is becoming more and more 'cheeky' (like with a huge victory mosque on the site of the 9/11 infidel massacre), he is being cheeky back.
Comment by Kinana on September 7, 2010 at 23:19
Pastor Terry Jones says: 'Islam is of the devil.'
Re the burning of the Quran Day Commander Petraeus says: 'It puts our soldiers in [more] jepardy.'
Comment by adrian panthers on September 7, 2010 at 18:42
Terry Jones (usa pastor) has organised an international burn a quranday on 9/11
Although this tactic maybe counter productive the dimmi press suggest he is being the same as radical islamists. I have not ever heard this paster argue for suicide bombings, terrorist acts, death to unbelievers etc, he does have a point. Any islamic violence that may happen as a responce is due to islamists never being able to take offence. Irrespective of the thousands of violent offences occuring in the name of allah happening yearly.

Members (243)


Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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