Reply by Gastou 12 hours ago
What do you think about Turkey as a member of EU? I say NO because there are enough muslims in Europe
Reply by multikultur 10 hours ago
Definitely a No. I already mentioned the different ways of islamisation in France and Germany: in France you got masses of muslims from the former French colonies in the maghreb, in Germany we have millions of immigrants from Turkey, who came during the times of the "Wirtschaftswunder". These two groups are completely different to handle - while the Turkish are much more "moderate" and "western" they are also more dangerous because they know exactly how to use a democratic society for their purposes.
They tried to invade this continent for centuries and finally they succeeded because somebody let the city gates wide open for a conquering army. Turkey is a booming economy with its very own islamisation (or arabisation) on the rise, once granted membership to the EU it would be the union's most powerful member with the highest population! Ten million more immigrants from Turkey would be in Germany overnight, so to say. EU membership for Turkey equals Europe's death.
Reply by Alan1 on 2 September 2008 at 12:44pm
And I think there's 4 other points of prime importance here.
There is a cold-heartedness amongst us 'Western/Christian Democrats' which borders on treachery. We let our brothers in Anatolia be over-run, slaughtered, raped and taken as slaves, and now we don't even do them the justice of remembering it. We must never cease to remember and remind Turkey that it is an Islamic conquest by the sword. We must shut up these dhimmi twits that keep blabbering on "Remember the Crusades". We must remember the injustices us kafir have received. If you debate with Muslims you will be surprised how many do not know their bloodthirsty history of conquest, we must shut them up too, by never letting this memory die.
2. Historical Legitimacy
Why do we accept the legitimacy of this state? Would Muslims accept it if 'Christians' retook Egypt? Or Zoroastrians re-took Iran? They don't even accept the legitimacy of the re-taking of Spain!
3. Current Legitimacy
In Turkey, it is a criminal offence to even mention the Armenian massacre, never mind try get a state apology. What about the Christian missionaries recently tortured to death, disemboweled & emasculated alive in the 21st century no less! See this Library doc.
What about the Christian poplulation of Constantinople/Istanbul, from 2 million in 1920 down to 2,500 now, as described here? Did they all go on holiday? Did they forget to have children? We need to jab these facts into our opponents faces.
4. Offence not Defence
We must go from the defence to the offence. Islam feels no shame (for its history). Why? Germans feel shame for Nazi Germany, Americans even feel shame for Abu Gharaib, but Muslims, no. Why should they? The people they abuse are sub-human (in their classification), with lower Human Rights (its even in their Muslim Declaration of Human Rights!).
Turkey should be ashamed to even ask for membership. The request should be greeted with derision - 'You cannot be serious'. If we can only refresh people's memories of the past and present, we can move this to a position of shame.
I think this is starting to happen with for example, Gastou's Action SITA. If enough of the foul strories are common knowledge, they will even be wary of putting in an application to build a mosque.
Reply by Derius on 17 September 2008 at 12:40am
Well said, I agree with you.
However, with regards to your statement here:
"What about the Christian poplulation of Constantinople/Istanbul, from 2 million in 1920 down to 2,500 now, as described here?"
be warned that there is an effective argument that some apologists employ to counter that. They will point out that Ataturk took control in 1919, and it is under him and his secular reforms that the oppression you mention took place, and that before 1919, when Turkey was a Caliphate, there was less oppression. They will then argue that it was only when Islam was constrained by secular reforms that the lot of Christians worsened.
Nonsense I know, as the persecution of Christians was despite Secularism and not because of it, but I have seen one person get caught out by this counter argument previously. Just so you are prepared!
My favourite argument against those who want Turkey to join the EU is to point out that Mein Kampf got into the top 10 book bestsellers in Turkey a few years ago. Most hand wringing Liberals run a mile at that point!
Reply by Alan1 on 17 September 2008 at 5:58am
Yes, well the Muslims are experts at creating arguments full of balderdash, so thanks for the warning.
(1) since Turkey was a purely Christian country before Islam conquered it, you have to ask what happened to all of them before 1920, so they got down to 2 million. Its like all the zoroastrians in Persia... I guess they all went on holiday and decided not to come back? this is a typical sneaky argument, ignoring all the millions that went before 1920, because they assume the country should be Islamic anyway, and all those dead and oppressed Christians don't matter, because they are just sub-human dhimmis.
(2) the presence of Ataturk is not relevant over 425 years of perpetual decline. Ataturk did not rescind the Islamic prohibitions on church maintenance, etc. anyway. Nor did we see a sudden attempt to revive the poor oppressed Christian population after he went.
Nor has it anything to do with this disgusting story of torture, with cutting off and genitalia and chopping them in front of the victim, here.
We must all stop being delicately polite about these 425 years of violence and abuse, continuing to this day. Turkey should be even ashamed to ask to join civilised society.
A friends neice toured Turkey recently and was puzzled by the fact that Jesus's face was vandalised in most places. I guess she was also puzzled by the minarets on converted churches. The reason why Islam is so dangerous is that it is persistent and moves very slowly - so slowly that everyone forgets. The whole current generation has no idea how scary (on a national level) it was until the beginning of the 20th century. Everyone has forgotten that Turkey should be a Christian country.
Nice point about the Mein Kamfp as well.
Reply by Remember Kinana on 6 September 2008 at 12:30am
1. every german person i speak to says 'no', but they also say that the German government/leaders etc will allow it. The people feel powerless to do anything about it. i hope that feeling of powerlessness changes in time. it seems that the people of Austria and Germany are the people most likely to push enough so that the political leadership can veto the admission of Turkey.
2. i have heard that should Turkey succeed in entry to the EU then changes in their laws would be required. i.e. re human rights and freedom of speech etc. At the moment Turkey fails on these two points and a host of other HR matters. The ruling party are walking the tight rope of keeping the growing Islamic tide under wraps just long enough to appease the European leadership to give them a green light for entry. and when that happens will the rest of Europe be ready? probably not, but we here at nemosini are working on it, i know.
3. because of the turkish economy the european businesses are looking at short-term gain, so we cannot expect them to offer any assistance to forstall this drive for admission.