The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Call Emerges for "Burn the Stars and Stripes Day"


A radical Islamic activist and lawyer in the U.K. has called on Muslims worldwide to burn U.S. flags outside American embassies on Sept. 11, a "direct retaliation" against a Florida church's plan to burn Qurans on the same day.

Anjem Choudary, former leader of the banned hardline Islamic group Islam4UK, told CBS News in London he was calling for, "an international burn the Stars and Stripes day" on the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Choudary, who regularly organizes small demonstrations in Britain calling for the implementation of Islamic law, was the first public figure -- and a likely one -- to call for retaliation against Gainesville, Fla. Reverend Terry Jones' plans to burn at least 100 Qurans.

Above: Anjem Choudary (right) leads a demonstration of fundamentalist Muslims against then-Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf in front of the Pakistani Embassy in London, July 11, 2007.

Anticipating a volatile reaction from the world's Muslims if Jones' church goes ahead with the stunt on Saturday, the State Department issued a warning to all U.S. embassies on Wednesday advising them to assess their security measures and brace for potential backlash.

Rev. Jones has ignored pleas from the Obama administration and U.S. military commanders to abandon his plans, telling CBS News on Wednesday that he felt the act was still "very necessary" as a warning to Islamic radicals, who he feels are attempting to gain political clout and push their agenda in the U.S.

More Quran Burning Coverage:

Quran Burning Legal? Protest Possibly Protected
Pastor Will Not Cancel Quran Burning
Quran Burning Protests in Afghanistan
Jones: Judaism, Other Religions "Of The Devil"
AG Holder: Quran Burning Idiotic, Dangerous
Pastor: I Know Quran Burning is Insulting
Extended Interview: Rev. Terry Jones
Terry Jones, The Man Behind "Burn A Quran Day"
Petraeus: Burning Qurans Could Endanger Troops
Fla. Church Denied Permit to Burn Qurans

Tags: Anjem, Burn the Stars and Stripes Day, Choudhary, a, starts

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Replies to This Discussion

A fight is comming but we don't need to start it. I worry about Rev Jones starting the uprising but what really bothers me is his buying of korans. The only place to get korans is from muslems. At the same time he is burning korans he will probably be funding terrorism against us. So when it is said and done not only will have Jones have caused an uprising possibly killing Americans but will have partially funded that same uprising.
Don't worry about it. You can get very cheap paperback Qurans, they must be subsidised by Saudi or something. In fact, one of the perks of this struggle is you can buy some really beautiful books at very low cost.

I don't approve of book burning in general, but I guess we're going to have to get used to it if we are going to go thru a phase of conforming all religious books (including Christian, Jewish, etc) ones to legal acceptability.
That sounds like poetic justice if they are burning korans paid for buy Saudi wahabist. I worry most about you folks in the UK. 5th columnist socialist have disarmed the citizenry. Over here not only do we have guns but we have plenty of pigskins to bury them in.
This country and the world is becoming Muslim tolerant. The outrage over the burning of the Quroan is evidnece of our growing tolerance of Muslims. Where was the outrage when our tropps burnt Bibles?

Rev Jones actions are hate filled and totally uncalled for.
Obama condemns Pastor Jones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJMPatx1KV0&feature=related

OK, so let me see if I've understood this properly.
(1) Burning Korans is bad because it offends people who believe in Islam, but burning the US flag is not bad because we don't care about offending people who believe in republican democracy?

(2) "America is at war with a small number of violent extremists, not with Islam". OK, so that small number has killed 3000 civilians in New York and destroyed the symbol of its economic might, killed 3000 troops and cost trillions of dollars so far, has produced stalemate in Iraq and God knows what in Afghanistan. Sheesh! What would a large number of those violent extremists do? Is it perhaps more than just a tiny number, and is there perhaps a supremacist ideology involved? Oh, its so confusing!

And then there was some 'christian expert' who said that Pastor Jones' actions were very unchristian (probably true) but that it also broke the Golden Rule! (i.e. do unto others as you would wish them do to you)
Hellooo? Pastor Jones is here applying the Golden Rule, not breaking it! You can almost see these critics stepping back while they speak.
Choudhary is no lawyer. He is a work shy dole claiming scrounger. The trouble is England helps hate filled muslim extremeists spout their hatetred all over the media.the way our Govenments allow these people to get away with it is a National disgrace and future generations will pay the price. I don,t think burning the quran is of any use. Picking up all the radical islamic mouthpieces and send them back to their country of origin would be better. And lets not forget many of them would be put on trial and have to face the same laws that they are trying to force on us. they use our laws to protect themselves and claim asylum then they run around the streets unabated burning our flags. the American flag being the favariot. The burning of national flags is insulting and should be made illegal (if its not already) and the persons involved locked up.
Fools like Bloomberg, our Democratic Socialists, and the weak liberal governments of Europe believe that muslems can be appeased by paying tribute in the form of victory mosques, and allowing them to burn our flags in the name of freedom of expression. All it does is make them respect us less. They hate us hawks for being ready to war against them and they hate the doves for being so disgustingly cowardly.
Perfectly put :-)

Tom Hough said:
Fools like Bloomberg, our Democratic Socialists, and the weak liberal governments of Europe believe that muslems can be appeased by paying tribute in the form of victory mosques, and allowing them to burn our flags in the name of freedom of expression. All it does is make them respect us less. They hate us hawks for being ready to war against them and they hate the doves for being so disgustingly cowardly.
The Muslim Fanatics will never be appeased. They are insane. Our Weak Govenments are to blame for the coming troubles. islam does not fit in western society. History tells us how appeasing Hitler nearly destroyed the free world. We have not learned the lessons of the past. Our good men are dying for our freedom while we allow scum to preach hate on our streets. How is it that so many people can see that, and yet the people in charge are so completely blind.
In Judges when the Lord told the Israelites to destroy the Caananites "for they will become a thorn in your side", this is the day that he was prophesying.

paul collings said:
The Muslim Fanatics will never be appeased. They are insane. Our Weak Govenments are to blame for the coming troubles. islam does not fit in western society. History tells us how appeasing Hitler nearly destroyed the free world. We have not learned the lessons of the past. Our good men are dying for our freedom while we allow scum to preach hate on our streets. How is it that so many people can see that, and yet the people in charge are so completely blind.
Good for him, burning the U.S. flags is a right given to everyone under the US constitution.
Whatever floats his pathetic boat?
As long as he understands we can burn the Black flag of Mohammad and Islam.
Any way I like Anjem Choudary, he makes me laugh out loud, he is such a numpty, . I find it hard to take him seriously.
And have you noticed he always has the same rent boys with him?
last week some lads from England burned some Qurans. the British police have charged them with inciting racial hatred. Is it racists to burn the Quran ?. It never seems to be called racist when islamics burn the bible or our flags. Whats the American take on racism. In England racism refers to people who donot embrace Islam. People who don,t want to eat halal meat, their racist as well by the way. I wish PASTOR Jones had burnt the quran. Not because i want to endanger our armed forces (which i think it would) i just think it would have proved we can burn their book,the same as they burn ours. Turn the other cheek is the only saying of the Bible that we in the west seem to practise.

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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