The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Although i have every respect for Ms phillips, i,ve just read that she,s had threats of death aimed at her for suggesting that some gay people were in danger of becoming the new McCathyites, by demonising and attempting to silence all who diagree with the gay rights agenda.

  'All Those'... yer right, everyone except those who would throw them from a building. They.ll threaten Ms Phillips...... Not a word to Anjem Choudray, or any other Islamic radical they rub shoulders with. I,d love to see someone like tatchell 'Demonising a few muslims out side a mosque in Birmingham.   Get your facts right Ms Phillips.  

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Comment by Joe on March 2, 2011 at 8:09

Paul, I don't believe it has anything to do with them being gay, or is any way consistent.  People try to maintain a coherent image of themselves, and most homos have an image of themselves as tolerant and as supporting the underdog, and they see the Palestinians (not islam as such) as the underdog -- and that is due to 40 or more years of relentless misreporting by the western media, and that misreporting probably comes from a (post-)Christian guilt complex about the empire and colonialism (which in itself may be totally misplaced).

 

If you visit any "gay news" website (e.g. www.pinknews.co.uk) and follow the comments that ordinary gay people make about islam, you will find they are about 70% opposed to islam and appalled by it.  I've noticed that level of opposition for at least 10 or 20 years (even pre-dating the internet I was aware of how hostile gay people were towards islam).  BUT... that hostility goes against their self-image as 'liberal', 'tolerant' people.

 

They haven't thought it through -- if you are universally tolerant, then you have nothing to use to withstand an ideology that is intolerant.  However, they would not tolerate nazism (well, the vast majority wouldn't).  So, if we can shift public perceptions about what islam is (and show for example how sharia law is racist and an ideology of slavery) then maybe we can get the liberals to actually stand up for liberalism.  Cameron's "muscular liberalism" is a start.

Comment by paul collings on March 1, 2011 at 23:43
Thank you joe, i shall take a good look at the points you,ve raised. The only point i will have trouble with is why Gays would support islam. After the struggle they,ve had this centry in fighting predjudis. It seems a backward step. To me it looks the same as women giving up the vote.
Comment by Joe on March 1, 2011 at 20:59

Melanie Phillips is homophobic.  But that doesn't mean she should receive death threats.  In fact, if I ruled this country, people would suffer very severe consequences for threatening anyone with violence, let alone death. 

Melanie Phillips ranting about "the gay lobby" is just as stupid as those people who rant about "the jewish lobby".  She believes in discrimination against gay people - she believes that hoteliers should be able to say to gay customers "you cannot stay here because you're gay".  But I'll bet she would say the same hoteliers should not be able to say to black people "you cannot stay here because you're black".

Clearly Phillips believes that paid state officials such as registrars should be allowed to bring their personal prejudices into their work.  Why should they be allowed to do that?  Would she defend the right of racists to refuse to marry a black woman to a white man?

Groups like Queers For Palestine are no more stupid than communists who support islam, or women who support islam.

As for John saying it was a good job such gay people don't hold their demos in Palestine -- they do!  The morons actually go there and get told by the muslims "don't fly your rainbow flags in support of us", but the stupid homos just continue to support them, and the media suppress such stories.  But that's no different than what happens with communists supporting islamists (as they did in Iran), or the pro-Palestinian western women who get raped and sexually abused in Palestine as thanks for their support (the stories of which are again suppressed).

As for gay people not tackling islam -- Tatchell and his group Outrage were blockading Hizb ut Tahrir conferences 15 years ago, and was threatened with murder by HuT for doing so.  To my knowledge, until the EDL threatened The Troxy conference la

Comment by John Sobieski on March 1, 2011 at 16:22

Yeah! Strange that? I wondered about the "Gays for Palestine" march - good job it wasn't in Palestine then!

 

John.

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom of Movement
The government can import new voters - except where that changes the political demographics (i.e. electoral fraud by means of immigration)
4. SP Freedom from Over-spending
People should not be charged for government systems which they reject, and which give them no benefit. For example, the government cannot pass a debt burden across generations (25 years).
An additional Freedom from Religion is be deducible by equal application of law: "Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight - except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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