The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

When I studied philosophy and poltiics, Avinieri's books were pre-eminent in the course on Marxism.

He's now realised, after decades of supporting the PLO, that he was wrong. Muslims never wanted a 2 state solution, because muslims refuse to recognise jews are a people.

The truth is – and every Oslo supporter must recognize it – that in the Palestinian narrative, the Jews are not a people or a nation, but only a religious group, and therefore they are not entitled to a state. This is also the reason for the across-the-board and uncompromising opposition of the Palestinian side to recognizing the State of Israel as the State of the Jewish People. Even those who believe that Benjamin Netanyahu raised the topic only to complicate the negotiations, must contend with the fact that the Palestinian refusal to contend with the topic derives from the simple reason that the Palestinians believe that there is no Jewish people.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/israeli-plo-sympathize...

Even now this dumb Marxist is too blinkered to actually look at this from an islamic perspective.  He still thinks the Fakestinians (Arab muslims) are "a people", when even the PLO has long ago admitted there are not Palestinians, and that when Israel is destroyed there would be not Palestinian state.

In the muslim world view, there is only 1 people: muslims.  Everyone else is just a serf or a slave or to be killed.

Tags: Avinieri, Failed, Heroes, Left:, Prof., Shlomo, of, the

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Replies to This Discussion

"The truth is – and every Oslo supporter must recognize it – that in the Palestinian narrative, the Jews are not a people or a nation, but only a religious group, and therefore they are not entitled to a state."

- I'm neither religious myself nor someone who believes that the state of Israel was created only for religious reasons; but why is it taken for granted that a state can only be created for a "people" or a "nation", and not a "religious group"? What about Pakistan?...

Don't the notions of a people, a nation and a religious group interpenetrate in the case of Israel? With Pakistan, on the other hand, it was literally all about Islam uniting what were to become Pakistanis. Pakistan is still made up of warring tribes, different sects of Islam and different "provinces" which are, in some cases, at war with one another (such as the Punjab versus both Balochistan and, to a lesser extent, Sindh).  .

If Hamas PRETENDS to base its fundamental opposition on Israel being a state for a "religious group", then that's strange coming from a group that is committed to the creation of an "Islamic state". What does Hamas think of the theocratic state of Iran and the creation of Pakistan?... Having said that, the article above is mainly about the PLO's former position.

In a sense, none of this matters because any reason will do to de-legimise the right of Israel to exist. One day it's the "Nakba", then "the right of return", now it's all about "settlements'... To the Left it's about "colonialist oppressors" or the fact that that Israel hasn't offered a peace prize to Noam Chomsky.

In a sense, none of this matters because any reason will do to de-legimise the right of Israel to exist. One day it's the "Nakba", then "the right of return", now it's all about "settlements'... To the Left it's about "colonialist oppressors" or the fact that that Israel hasn't offered a peace prize to Noam Chomsky.

I agree.  And even before Israel existed, they still had justification for attacking the US:

http://4freedoms.com/group/jews/forum/topics/you-can-blame-israel-f...

It is gratifying that, finally, Avinieri has woken up, but as the article says, its too late, he's already done his damage (a bit like Obama in the US, if he eventually woke up :-) - but I digress).  There was a time when the Israelis could have had him tried and executed for treason.

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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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