The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Information

Fightback by Ideology, Dialogue & Constitution

Deals with ideological threats to our freedom and society.  

Analyses argument and rhetoric in all its forms: media interview, debate, and oratory.

Also considers fight back by fixing the 4 constitutional vulnerabilities as identified in the principles of 4F.

Members: 42
Latest Activity: Jul 23

Key Info

Religious arguments go in the Theology Room, so all the rest (i.e. secular ones) come into this room. One-on-one arguments are treated in the same way as combat skills are treated in the UFC, as a pure skill, unrelated to the truth or falsehood (whatever that is) of the underlying message.

The CODA glossary is here:
http://4freedoms.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/dialogue-analysis-glossary


Find more photos like this on The 4 Freedoms Library

  • "The strictly leveled playing field is not a level playing field  (it advantages thugs)" - Alan Lake
  • "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments." - Hayek, 1961

Related Sites:
http://www.ethicalsoc.org.uk
http://www.humanism.org.uk
http://www.iransecularsociety.com
http://www.secularism.org.uk

Discussion Forum

Doxing the Doxers

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 9. 2 Replies

The Power Elite

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Antony Jun 29. 629 Replies

We Have Met the Enemy - by Tal Bachman

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake May 23. 3 Replies

Terminal Societal Sickness

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jan 29. 35 Replies

The US constitution

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Dec 3, 2020. 2 Replies

How to Respond to Abuse from SJW & Leftists

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Oct 18, 2020. 2 Replies

Fascism, Nazism and Socialism - collected articles

Started by Paul Austin Murphy. Last reply by Alan Lake Sep 20, 2020. 81 Replies

Failed Heroes of the Left: Keir Starmer

Started by Alan Lake. Last reply by Alan Lake Jul 3, 2020. 7 Replies

Good Words for Key Concepts

Started by Alan Lake Oct 17, 2019. 0 Replies

Comment Wall

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Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 19, 2021 at 13:09

Seems we are in a time of radical change to the english language, or is it a change in the human mentality? (purity spiral, virtue signalling- and much more).

I have to look up things in order to understand what people are talking about. it didn't use to be necessary as we were largely agreed on certain things. Common sense has become uncommon.

Comment by Alan Lake on May 19, 2021 at 8:47

It can lead to a purity spiral:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Purity%20Spiral

It might have made sense 2000 years ago, when the poor were genuinely poor, but now, when the 'poor' live better lives than any medieval king, that line of thinking has inverted and become a source of corruption, not virtue.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 18, 2021 at 22:55

This is the most disgusting and dangerous thing that Jesus is supposed to have said. Along with love your enemy and love others more than yourself. Because we must put ourselves and our family before everything else, it is a matter of survival and wellbeing. The messages of Christ are suicidal, He himself committed suicide, promised an imagined reward in heaven for good deeds and that those that wronged you would be punished by the bearded man in the sky with his magic wand, and stated that those that did not believe in him would suffer an eternity of agony in hell.

Luke 14:12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

Comment by Alan Lake on May 13, 2021 at 12:33

Thanks. Here's the whole 'Lies of the Enlightenment' series again, for those that haven't seen it before.  I tried to follow it on Bitchute, but it was just too much hard work :-(

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyQPYcHuaY8L7hmWsdNkdq3LhCPUA-7dw

Comment by Antony on May 13, 2021 at 9:23

Lies of the Enlightenment ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMTtRlEpBfY

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 9, 2021 at 16:18

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9557977/SARAH-VINE-want-...
SARAH VINE: If you want to meet a real bigot, try talking to a liberal
"These types approach their mission with an evangelism that stems not so much from a desire to improve the world around them but from the absolute certainty of the superiority of their convictions and the unshakeable belief that anyone who dares to question them is an inferior human being. That their opponents are not just wrong, but also wicked and must be destroyed."

Comment by Philip Smeeton on March 22, 2021 at 8:26

I think you are talking about wisdom Alan.

My take is that in politics policy must correspond with reality. If it causes harm then stop doing it.

But then the discussion would be what "harm" to choose. What rights are and who gets them. Putting the rights of the discriminated minority before the wellbeing of the majority seems to be the better moral choice. After all the minority is suffering and the majority is not. But that policy ends up harming the majority because the moral-mind will constantly discover new minorities to protect. Ending in insane policies.

Which is where we are now in the West.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on March 22, 2021 at 8:13

Me-
There are some truths/facts that are unknown, and some that will never be known.
The truths/facts that are known and verifiable are all that we have. All else is speculation or false or to be verified or unverifiable.
Truth must be factual. Otherwise it is fantasy, delusion and wishful thinking.
Knowable truth.

Comment by Alan Lake on March 21, 2021 at 19:23

Interesting, but also disappointing.

I don't think you can start by just discovering truth. I think you first define perception and assertion to get knowledge. Then you do the 4-way divide into known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knowns, and unknown unknowns.

Then within those categories you define what truth means. It could be correspondence to fact where 'fact' is mutual observation. Admittedly that's what they are getting at with their multiple viewpoint model. But I think there are other varieties of truth like logically necessary truth, statistically likely truth, and peer-reviewed acceptable truth.

They've put the cart before the horse by positing truth then trying to discover its properties. Instead we need to first discover the properties of knowledge, and then try find what is true knowledge.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on March 20, 2021 at 22:23

Necessary/contingent truths
A necessary truth is one that could not have been otherwise. It would have been true under all circumstances. A contingent truth is one that is true, but could have been false. A necessary truth is one that must be true; a contingent truth is one that is true as it happens, or as things are, but that did not have to be true. In Leibniz's phrase, a necessary truth is true in all possible worlds. If these are all the worlds that accord with the principles of logic, however different they may be otherwise, then the truth is a logically necessary truth. If they cover all the worlds whose metaphysics is possible, then the proposition is metaphysically necessary. If a proposition is only true in all the worlds that are physically possible, then the proposition is true of physical necessity.

A permanent philosophical urge is to diagnose contingency as disguised necessity (Leibniz, Spinoza), although especially in the 20th century there have been equally powerful movements, especially associated with Quine, denying that there are substantive necessary truths, instead regarding necessity as disguised contingency.

 

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Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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