The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

This morning on sunrise I heard them talking about putting curtains up at a public pool so Muslim women could swim in private.....Go swim with the sharks I say


Hefty bill for Muslim women's privacy at public swimming pool

John Masanauskas

From: Australia, Herald Sun

February 11, 2011 12:00AM 329


RATEPAYERS could be stung up to $45,000 to install curtains at a public pool so Muslim women can have privacy during a female-only exercise classes.


The City of Monash has won an exemption from equal opportunity laws to run the sessions outside normal opening hours.


The council says the privacy screen is needed for "cultural reasons".


It follows moves by other councils to introduce women-only sessions for the Muslim community, such as Greater Dandenong asking a tribunal to approve a ban on uncovered shoulders and thighs for those attending a family event at a pool.


Special exercise classes for women will be held at the Clayton Community Centre every second Sunday evening after VCAT gave the green light this week.


Ross Buscemi, director of refugee charity group the New Hope Foundation, said his organisation had lobbied for the sessions on behalf of Muslim women, mostly from African countries including Eritrea, Ethiopia and Sudan.


Mr Buscemi said the women had sought separate classes for cultural reasons and curtains or blinds were needed to protect their privacy because the centre had glass walls.


"At night, when the lights are on inside, everybody in there can be seen - it's a broader privacy issue, not just for the women," he said.


"It's stopping anybody perving on anybody in there really."


But Ratepayers Victoria president Jack Davis said it was disgraceful for councils to subsidise programs that segregated people.


"People come to Australia because it's a better place," he said.


"So then you should become Australian and abide by the customs of Australia, not change Australia to suit your customs from another country."


Monash councillors accepted that the women couldn't use the pool in normal hours for cultural and religious reasons.


They were told the special classes would address issues such as "obesity, social isolation and lack of physical strength".


Monash mayor Greg Male said the council sought funding from the Victorian Multicultural Commission to help meet the $45,000 cost of curtains or blinds for the pool.


Similar women-only programs at public pools are run at Monash University, Dandenong Oasis recreation centre and the Don Tatnell Leisure Centre in Parkdale.

Tags: Pools, Segregation

Views: 66

Replies to This Discussion

This is so wrong.  The state should not subsidise somebody's personal religion, let alone their political ideology.


Its a PUBLIC pool.  If they want special arrangements, they can build their own PRIVATE one, and just let in their own 'clean' people, and keep out the haram pigs and the dogs.


Same with hospitals and schools.  If they want halal meat, they can pay a private contractor to bring it in.  And as for prisons, they can eat the vegetarian option or starve, either is fine by me.  I am not here to subsidise political parties, especially ones I disagree with, I don't care whether they purport to be a religion or not.


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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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