The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

In order to judge the dangerous agreement with Iran one does not need to be a nuclear expert or a foreign affairs scholar. Just compare it to the very similar agreement reached by the US with North Korea only 2 decades ago in 1994.
North Korea easily managed to cheat the entire world an built the bomb in 5 years.
Iran which is much more capable will do it in less.
To repeat the same mistake twice is not only wrong it is total irresponsibility and total lack of morals and leadership.
Israel will know how to defend itself but what about the rest of the Middle East?

Views: 161

Replies to This Discussion

Thanks for making this forum.  I wish I'd made one earlier, because now the relevant articles on the Iran Nuclear situation are scattered about on the site.  When this topic first arose, it wasn't obvious it was going to become such big mess.

I didnt realise it was in the wrong place

No, you have put it in the right place, and you beat me to it!  But there are some postings on this topic, scattered about on 4F, that are like lost children - because they were written before this 'home' was created.  If I get time I will gather them up and add them here.  When you gather all the relevant information in one place, patterns become very clear and it becomes much easier to prove your case.

The Shadow of Munich Haunts the Iran Negotiations

Once again our leaders are needlessly appeasing a hostile state that shows them nothing but contempt.

by Victor Davis Hanson // National Review Online

Just to rub the point home: this is what the Iranian leaders and people are saying about those filthy Americans, whilst they negotiate new terms from them:

Revolution Day 2015 In Iran: A Regime-Organized Display Of Hatred For U.S., Obama

Iran Accuses U.S. of Lying About New Nuke Agreement

Says White House misleading Congress, American people with fact sheet

Photo: Javad Zarif / AP

April 2, 2015 5:40 pm

LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Just hours after the announcement of what the United States characterized as a historic agreement with Iran over its nuclear program, the country’s leading negotiator lashed out at the Obama administration for lying about the details of a tentative framework.

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people and Congress in a fact sheet it released following the culmination of negotiations with the Islamic Republic.

Zarif bragged in an earlier press conference with reporters that the United States had tentatively agreed to let it continue the enrichment of uranium, the key component in a nuclear bomb, as well as key nuclear research.

Zarif additionally said Iran would have all nuclear-related sanctions lifted once a final deal is signed and that the country would not be forced to shut down any of its currently operating nuclear installations.

Following a subsequent press conference by Secretary of State John Kerry—and release of a administration fact sheet on Iranian concessions—Zarif lashed out on Twitter over what he dubbed lies.

“The solutions are good for all, as they stand,” he tweeted. “There is no need to spin using ‘fact sheets’ so early on.”

Zarif went on to push back against claims by Kerry that the sanctions relief would be implemented in a phased fashion—and only after Iran verifies that it is not conducting any work on the nuclear weapons front.

Zarif, echoing previous comments, said the United States has promised an immediate termination of sanctions.

“Iran/5+1 Statement: ‘US will cease the application of ALL nuclear-related secondary economic and financial sanctions.’ Is this gradual?” he wrote on Twitter.

He then suggested a correction: “Iran/P5+1 Statement: ‘The EU will TERMINATE the implementation of ALL nuclear-related economic and financial sanctions’. How about this?”

The pushback from Iran’s chief diplomat follows a pattern of similar accusations by senior Iranian political figures after the announcement of previous agreements.

Following the signing of an interim agreement with Iran aimed at scaling back its nuclear work, Iran accused the United States of lying about details of the agreement.

On Thursday evening, Zarif told reporters the latest agreement allows Iran to keep operating its nuclear program.

“None of those measures” that will move to scale back Iran’s program “include closing any of our facilities,” Zarif said. “We will continue enriching; we will continue research and development.”

“Our heavy water reactor will be modernized and we will continue the Fordow facility,” Zarif said. “We will have centrifuges installed in Fordow, but not enriching.”

The move to allow Iran to keep centrifuges at Fordow, a controversial onetime military site, has elicited concern that Tehran could ramp up its nuclear work with ease.

Zarif said that once a final agreement is made, “all U.S. nuclear related secondary sanctions will be terminated,” he said. “This, I think, would be a major step forward.”

Zarif also revealed that Iran will be allowed to sell “enriched uranium” in the international market place and will be “hopefully making some money” from it.

Obama downplays Russia S-300 supply to Iran, ‘jaws drop’ in Israel

Published time: April 18, 2015 13:49  Get short URL
Reuters / Jonathan Ernst

Reuters / Jonathan Ernst

US President Barack Obama has admitted he was “surprised” that Moscow held back resumption of S-300 supplies to Iran for so long. Some Israeli officials are reportedly saying the prospect of derailing the Iran nuclear talks is now zero.

After President Vladimir Putin lifted the ban on S-300 supply to Iran last Monday, Obama made his first official comment on Friday. He downplayed the significance of the deal, which gives advanced air defense missiles systems to Israel’s archrival in the region.

“I’m frankly surprised that it [the ban on S-300 deliveries to Iran] held this long, given that they were not prohibited by [UN Security Council] sanctions from selling these defensive weapons,” Obama said on Friday at a news conference in the White House, after talks with Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi.

Obama recalled that Moscow held off the deal for six years at America's request.

"This is actually a sale that was slated to happen in 2009, when I first met with then-Prime Minister [Vladimir] Putin. They actually stopped the sale, paused or suspended the sale, at our request," Obama said.

The $800-million contract signed between Moscow and Tehran in 2007 to supply five S-300 squadrons was put on hold in 2009, and terminated altogether after the UN imposed sanctions on Iran in 2010.

READ MORE: Putin lifts ban on delivery of S-300 missile systems to ...

President Obama said he’s not surprised that President Putin has now lifted the ban, “given some of the deterioration in the relationship between Russia and the United States, and the fact that their economy is under strain, and this was a substantial sale.”

During his 13th annual Q&A marathon televised from Moscow on Thursday, President Putin also mentioned that the S-300 complexes for Iran had been manufactured, but not delivered, so the manufacturer suffered substantial losses as a result of the deal’s annihilation. Moscow insists the S-300 squadrons made for Tehran were disassembled.

The news about Moscow finally supplying Tehran with powerful air defenses made America’s major Middle East ally – Israel – twitch with discomfort.

Following Russia’s decision to lift a ban on supplying S-300 missile systems to Iran, the Israeli PM called President Putin to express his “grave concerns.” Netanyahu received a detailed explanation of the logic behind Moscow’s move, which pointed out that S-300 is a defensive weapon in the first place.

READ MORE: S-300 in Iran ‘no threat to Israel’: Putin briefs Netany...

Russia’s explanations were made in vain, as Prime Minster Netanyahu’s office released a statement, claiming that Moscow’s step “will only encourage Iranian aggression in the region and further undermine the stability of the Middle East.”

READ MORE: Russia halts plans to supply S-300 missile system to Syr...

Obama’s comment on S-300 supply to Iran sparked “shock and amazement” among Israeli analysts, the Times of Israel reported.

“Jaws dropped” around Israel’s Channel 10 News studio, said the diplomatic commentator Ben Caspit.

“He’s amazed that the Russians honored an agreement with him [for this long]? That’s what is astonishing,” the station’s news anchor Alon Ben David said.

Channel 10 cited unnamed senior Israeli diplomatic officials as saying that the prospect of Israel derailing the deal in US-led talks with Iran on its nuclear program was now zero. “The Iran issue is finished,” the officials said.

READ MORE: Netanyahu’s biggest fear? That Iran ‘honors nuclear deal’

A former Israeli diplomat, Dan Arbell, told CNN: “It does seem to have given some prominent countries or some members of the international community the feeling that there's a green light to go ahead and start resuming commercial defense ties with Iran.”

Aaron David Miller, a former Middle East aide to Republican and Democratic secretaries of state, commented to CNN: "The Russians know, and so do the Israelis, that Iran has sort of been kosherized by the fact that it's in the negotiating process."

On Thursday, ahead of Obama’s statement on S-300, US Army General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said no supply of sophisticated surface-to-air missile systems to Iran can undermine the Pentagon's capability of preventing Iran from making a nuclear weapon of its own.

“We've known about the potential for that [S-300] system to be sold to Iran for several years, and have accounted for it in all of our planning,” Dempsey told reporters.

“The military option that I owe the president to both encourage the diplomatic solution, and if the diplomacy fails to ensure that Iran doesn't achieve a nuclear weapon, is intact,” Dempsey said, without specifying how the US is going to break through Iran’s notably up-to date air defenses.

READ MORE: Pentagon upgrades biggest ‘bunker buster’ bomb in case I...

When supplied to Iran, squadrons of S-300 anti-aircraft complexes will securely lock off the skies within at least 200 kilometers from Iran’s most important nuclear and military facilities.

Iranian Army chief vows to raze 2 Israeli cities to the ground if it makes ‘tiniest’ mistake

Iranian Army chief vows to raze 2 Israeli cities to the ground if it makes ‘tiniest’ mistake
An Iranian Army commander warns that Tehran will raze Tel Aviv and Haifa to the ground if Israel makes any mistake, local media report. The commander also said Israel will not last longer than 25 years.

Major General Abdolrahim Mousavi, who became commander-in-chief of the Islamic Republic of Iran Army (AJA) in August this year, said on Monday that Israel may exist for a maximum of 25 more years, as cited by Tasnim news agency.

He added that any mistake by Israel would result in Haifa and Tel Aviv being razed to the ground, the news outlet reports.

Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, has said on several occasions in the past that Israel won’t last another 25 years.

Khamenei also repeatedly urged Muslims to “resist and fight” to seize Jerusalem, a city that is claimed as a capital by both Israelis and Palestinians.

“As I’ve said before, if Muslims & Palestinians unite & all fight, the Zionist regime will not be in existence in 25 years,” Khamenei wrote on Twitter in December.

Israel and Iran have repeatedly exchanged verbal jabs. In June this year, there were anti-Israel rallies across Iran on Al-Quds Day, with protesters shouting slogans against the Jewish state and condemning the occupation of Palestine. People shouted “Death to Israel” and held banners with slogans such as “Israel should be wiped off the map.” 

Israel has also had harsh words regarding Iran.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if, during the Iranian election on May 19, somebody assassinates the president of Iran, Hassan Rouhani,” Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman said in April. 

In March, Mossad chief Yossi Cohen said that Iran remains a threat to Israel with or without the nuclear deal.

“As long as the current regime exists, with the nuclear agreement or without it, Iran will continue to serve as the main threat to Israel’s security,” Cohen said

Tehran and Jerusalem have been geopolitical archrivals since Iran’s Islamic Revolution in 1979 as the new Iranian government refused to recognize the legitimacy of the Jewish state and cut diplomatic ties.

READ MORE: Iran will react strongly to any ‘wrong move’ by US over ...

Israel has been on the forefront of those accusing Iran of weaponizing its nuclear program and blames it for supporting Shia armed groups such as the Palestinian Hamas and the Lebanese Hezbollah.

Iran, for its part, blames Israel for oppressing Muslims, backing anti-Iranian groups and covert operations on Iranian territory.


Page Monitor

Just fill in the box below on any 4F page to be notified when it changes.

Privacy & Unsubscribe respected

Muslim Terrorism Count

Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11

Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

© 2022   Created by Netcon.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service