The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation


Saudi Arabia

A collection of information on Saudi Arabian intolerance and religious apartheid.

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more rape by saudis

Started by Herman Van Keer. Last reply by Antony Jan 20, 2016. 1 Reply

Lashes for 75 year old woman

Started by Herman Van Keer. Last reply by paul collings Oct 13, 2015. 7 Replies

Papio Hamadryas

Started by shiva. Last reply by shiva Sep 21, 2012. 2 Replies

Saudi Arabia goes to the movies

Started by Herman Van Keer. Last reply by Herman Van Keer Jan 2, 2010. 4 Replies

Stewardess 'Banned from Taking Bible on Plane'

Started by OldWarDog. Last reply by Herman Van Keer Dec 19, 2009. 2 Replies

Saudi Intolerance of Infidels

Started by OldWarDog Dec 18, 2009. 0 Replies

Lashes and Jail for dancing

Started by Herman Van Keer. Last reply by Herman Van Keer Dec 16, 2009. 5 Replies

Hypocrisy - Switzerland

Started by Herman Van Keer. Last reply by OldWarDog Dec 15, 2009. 3 Replies

Convert burned alive

Started by Herman Van Keer Dec 15, 2009. 0 Replies

Saudis Lecture Swiss on Tolerance

Started by John Carlson Dec 14, 2009. 0 Replies

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Comment by Alan Lake on August 20, 2018 at 20:54


9:59 AM 08/08/2018
Will Racke | Immigration and Foreign Policy Reporter

Saudi Arabia executed and then crucified a man in the city of Mecca on Wednesday, employing a rare form of punishment the kingdom uses for grave crimes.

Elias Abulkalaam Jamaleddeen was accused of breaking into the home of a woman from Myanmar and stabbing her to death, Bloomberg reported, citing the Saudi Interior Ministry.

He was further charged with attempting to rape a separate woman and kill a man whose house he also broke into.

Saudi Arabia frequently uses the death penalty for a range of crimes including murder, adultery and apostasy, but crucifixions are much rarer. Crucifixions in the kingdom often entail hanging a body in public after the condemned has been beheaded.

Wednesday’s crucifixion was upheld in Saudi courts and endorsed by King Salman, the Associated Press reported, citing a Saudi Press Agency announcement. At the direction of Salman’s heir, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Saudi Arabia has moved to liberalize some of its famously restrictive social policies, but the kingdom still retains its medieval Islamic character in matters of criminal justice. (RELATED: Saudi Arabia Seemingly Threatens 9/11-Style Attack On Can...

Saudi Arabia executed at least 146 people in 2017, according to Amnesty International. The U.S., with a population roughly 10 times larger than Saudi Arabia, executed 23 people the same year, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.

Comment by Alan Lake on May 1, 2018 at 14:18

There just isn't enough rainfall in that area, for that artificially inflated population, so there isn't enough water in the rivers either.  They are depleting the water table far faster than it is refilled.  Conflict is inevitable.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on May 1, 2018 at 9:38

They have oil pipelines, would water pipelines be feasible? Gathering water where the rivers meet the sea would not destroy the ecology inland.

Comment by Alan Lake on April 30, 2018 at 19:16

Water wars? Devastating shortages will fuel MidEast conflicts for 25 yrs – report — RT

Comment by Philip Smeeton on April 3, 2018 at 9:17

It looks like the oil rich middle-eastern countries are finally planning for a future without oil revenues. It would solve a lot of the worlds problems if muslim countries could develope and provide employment for all of their citizens. The higher the living standard the higher the likelihood that they will evolve beyond islam.

Comment by Alan Lake on April 3, 2018 at 1:00

Mohammed bin Salman (MBS, the ruler of Saudi Arabia), seems to be one of the more balanced rulers in the Middle East.  Here's a wide-ranging interview with him.

Comment by Philip Smeeton on November 9, 2017 at 9:01

All of that oil money and the Arabs have not solved their water problem.  While Israel with far less funds has solved its problem with huge desalination plants.

The technnology is there, solar power + desalination of the sea water that they have unlimited supplies of. Islam destroys effectiveness and the ability to think rationally. Solar energy and seawater is that so hard to comprehend?

Comment by Alan Lake on November 8, 2017 at 19:35
The water tariff comes amid warnings that Saudi Arabia’s groundwater will run out in the next 13 years.

I guess that's when Europe will be expected to accommodate the population of Saudi Arabia - after all, we couldn't let them struggle with  thirst in the desert, could we?

Daily water per person is reported to be 265 litres in Saudi Arabia, double the EU average.

The German Greens party rushes to support Islamic immigration, so that we can burn up the planet at twice the rate us decadent Westerners do now.

Comment by Alan Lake on November 8, 2017 at 19:33

Saudi Arabia is running out of water

Saudi Arabia has started taxing water for residents to try and address the soaring cost of debt as oil revenues decline

Saudi men visit the Ain Zubaida archaeological site in the Muslim holy city of Mecca on October 22, 2012. The wells of Ain Zubaida served Muslim pilgrims for hundreds of years as an essential water source in the desert region. AFP/Getty

Saudi Arabia has started taxing water for residents to try and address the soaring cost of debt as oil revenues decline.

The water tariff comes amid warnings that Saudi Arabia’s groundwater will run out in the next 13 years.

Mohammed Al-Ghamdi, a faculty member at King Faisal University, warned that groundwater was running out after the World Bank issued a report on global natural water scarcity.

Groundwater in Gulf countries is running out because they have some of the highest levels of water consumption per capita in the world, Saudi newspaper Al-Watan Arabic daily reportedDaily water per person is reported to be 265 litres in Saudi Arabia, double the EU average.

“Official estimates have been disclosed showing an acute drop in water levels in agricultural areas, and that indicates the seriousness of the situation,” Al-Ghamdi said. 

“This is a dangerous situation for all future crops that depend on these aquifers.”

Saudi relied on two sources of water: groundwater and water from desalination plants that remove salt from seawater. But the desalination process is extremely energy intensive. Groundwater accounts for 98 per cent of water sources in Saudi Arabia, because the kingdom is devoid of rivers and lakes.  The New Arab, a news site on the Arab world, said that reservoirs in central Saudi Arabia have “turned into sand pits”.

Saudi climate professors believe the water crisis stems from the 1983 decision to grow wheat in the kingdom. Wheat farming is now banned, but farming of hay, olive trees and date palms continues.

The Arab Gulf is said to suffer from the most complex water crisis in the world.

In nearby UAE, the Government is investing heavily in cloud-busting technology that shoots flares containing table salt into clouds to wring more rain out of them.

The World Bank said that water security is the number one global risk facing development. By 2030, there is expected to be a 40 per cent shortfall between forecasted demand and the available supply of water.

Comment by Alan Lake on July 31, 2017 at 11:41

The Son of the Man who Put the Saud in Saudi Arabia: Prince Abdul-Rahman bin Abdulaziz al Saud, 1931-2017


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Mission Overview

Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

We hope that free nations will wake up to stop the threat, and force the separation of (Islamic) Church and State. This will also allow moderate Muslims to escape from their totalitarian political system.

The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
Any speech is allowed - except that advocating the end of these freedoms
2. SP Freedom of Election
Any party is allowed - except one advocating the end of these freedoms
3. SP Freedom from Voter Importation
Immigration is allowed - except where that changes the political demography (this is electoral fraud)
4. SP Freedom from Debt
The Central Bank is allowed to create debt - except where that debt burden can pass across a generation (25 years).

An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

  • Religious and cultural activities are exempt from legal oversight except where they intrude into the public sphere (Res Publica)"

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