The 4 Freedoms Library

It takes a nation to protect the nation

This is taken from a discussion on Pastorius's blog, that I thought we could benefit from over here. Pastorius made a suggestion about offering Muslim women in the ME, escape from oppression by giving them safety and an education over in the west, on condition they don't bring any men or children with them. Erum (obviously a Muslim) responded with this:

Erum said... You'll be lucky if you find 5 let alone 500. But do try. Meanwhile, you didn't quite answer the question - what are you going to do about the hundreds that you lose every year to Islam - your own women crossing to the other side of their own free will (more white than black) - no tempting offers, no $$$, no 'immodest proposals' like yours - Losing more numbers than you are gaining - What kind of a victory is that? Doesn't it make you ask - what do they not find in their own (infidel) men??

To which I made the following comment.

I think this comment deserves a bit more chewing.
* lets ignore the final schoolboy jibe about 'what they don't find in their own men'
* lets take on board the previous reminder that some women chase after mass murderers and even child molesters in prison, so some women just have loopy taste
* lets dismiss that initial taunt that "you'll be lucky if you find 5" since none of us have any data and I have seen many disaffected women who are looking for any way out

That gets rid of the junk, so now maybe we can extract some value from this question. Refer to Diana West's "Death of the Grown Up" and Fjordmann's comments on rape of Swedish women in Malmo while the Swedish men stand pacifistically by.

If there is a problem, it is not that Western men are somehow less manly in an intrinsic sense than Muslim men. Remember Saddams gulf army anyone? Not very manly there were you?

But we do have a problem with our adulthood and our freedom to behave as men in the classical sense, and that's two problems that men in Muslim societies don't have to deal with. There's nothing wrong with Western men, but we have been neutered to some extent by the creeping forces of misguided liberalism and a somewhat perverted form of feminism. For that reason, there is a sense, I believe, that some women can experience a kind of relief in crossing over to the Muslim fold. Of course that relief could be short lived when they find out all they other rights they've lost, but its a bit academic by then anyway. But what this shows is that we have lost something in our mad rush to modernise and liberalise our society and free ourselves from all 'irrational' historical and tribal/ethnic traces, and some people are feeling that loss and reacting to it.

This is too big a topic to cover in a post like this, so I'll just wrap up with two suggestions.

(1) We need to get back to older style 'adult' leaders that don't wince so much when faced with tough actions for tough problems (like keeping Gitmo or tackling Irans nuclear plans). We need ones that have had more experience of the dirty side of survival.

(2) We need to re-appraise the role of women in society, and consider for example, that if you emasculate the society so much that women no longer receive protection from rape, is it worth it?

Tags: Islam?, Western, What, about, convert, that, the, to, women

Views: 57

Replies to This Discussion

About importing disgruntled muslim women:

It's a clever idea, but it's not going to happen. There's no political will behind it.

Even if it did, there's nothing to stop the women from moving to an enclave and putting their burkas back on once they get citizenship. I can't see how bringing even more ethnic muslims into the country is a step forward. The best step right now is to drastically cut the number of muslims coming in, not figure out exotic strategies for more of them to claim asylum.

That said, I think it would be a great idea to provide hot-lines and shelters for islamic women/girls who are already in Western countries. Christians seem to already have an informal network for this, judging from the Rifqa Bary case.
This is the kind of Muslim women we want in the UK:

Wouldn't it be spectacular if we had some sort of Muslim-suffragettes!! I mean hundreds and hundreds of them all just rebelling!! What a turning point that would be!! Maybe we could get a British women's rights group to take the first step for them :)
Good post!!!! Ya see, there can never be any logic from muslim trash like that creature above, called Erum!!!!! What we in more civilized and advanced societies must understand, is that muslims do not think with the high intellect that we of the more advanced races have been granted the privalage of having!!!! They will never understand how to act like human beings, therefore leaving us but one choice, and that is to dispose of all of them!!! It is touching to think of saving some of the women, for we all know how they have suffered for years and the truth of that matter is they do what they are told for fear of being killed!!!! These women do want out, but we may not be able to help, unfortunately!!! We must think about our societies, and futures in all free and western nations first!!!! Top priority, simple!!! Also, I agree with the fact, and think it was an excellent example to use when comparing the women who fall for mass murderers in prison, to the women who stupidly get involved with muslim trash!!! I would say men, but there are no real men in muslim societies!!!! Too bad in another way, that those women will never have the privalege of having a real man!! They are beaten by inhuman, cowardly wanna be bastards, and then never get to experience what a real man is!! Also, I agree with the basic fact that any woman in the western world that turns to the muslim world was only seeking something different at the time, and never had the true understanding of what, and how low class that culture and those people really are!!! It is called being naive, I suppose!!!! I also agree that liberalism, just as with political correctness has caused a watch out a little more attitude in western societies!!! However, long before liberalism, men still acted like men in the western societies!!!! They had nothing to prove, at least the real men did not!!! They respected a woman, and they knew that they actually held power over her in the sense that they could strike her in an argument and come out the winner!!! However, it takes a real man to walk away, and that is truly real power!!!! In turn it shows true character, and is one of the many examples of what being a real man is all about!!!! Even though we have some bad apples in our societies, for that is life, at least the majority have been taught to respect and care for women as GOD intended!!!! That is why, or one of the reasons why that the lower elements in the muslim world cannot understand, which is because, they DO NOT even come close to knowing the true GOD, and never will!!!! Also, within the lower classes such as with islam, the males will never know what it`s like to be real men!!!!! Umm?? Should they be pitied and spared???? DON`T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELL, LET`S EXTERMINATE!!!!!!!! DEATH TO ISLAM!!!!!!! YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED!!!!!!! BETTER GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Most Western societies are based on Secular Democracy, which itself is based on the concept that the open marketplace of ideas leads to the optimum government. Whilst that model has been very successful, it has defects. The 4 Freedoms address 4 of the principal vulnerabilities, and gives corrections to them. 

At the moment, one of the main actors exploiting these defects, is Islam, so this site pays particular attention to that threat.

Islam, operating at the micro and macro levels, is unstoppable by individuals, hence: "It takes a nation to protect the nation". There is not enough time to fight all its attacks, nor to read them nor even to record them. So the members of 4F try to curate a representative subset of these events.

We need to capture this information before it is removed.  The site already contains sufficient information to cover most issues, but our members add further updates when possible.

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The 4 Freedoms

These 4 freedoms are designed to close 4 vulnerabilities in Secular Democracy, by making them SP or Self-Protecting (see Hobbes's first law of nature). But Democracy also requires - in addition to the standard divisions of Executive, Legislature & Judiciary - a fourth body, Protector of the Open Society (POS), to monitor all its vulnerabilities (see also Popper). 
1. SP Freedom of Speech
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An additional Freedom from Religion is deducible if the law is applied equally to everyone:

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